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Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Rep. John Lewis Looks Back, 50 Years After March On Washington

Over the next week, a host of civil rights events will be taking place in Washington, D.C., leading up to the 50th anniversary next week of the March on Washington.

More than a quarter million people turned out for the historic event, highlighted by Martin Luther King, Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech.

The march is credited with giving momentum to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Congressman John Lewis of Georgia was there that day. At just 23 years old, he was chairman of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, one of the most important groups in the American civil rights movement.

John Lewis is pictured April 14, 1964. (Marion Trikosko)

John Lewis is pictured April 14, 1964. (Marion Trikosko)

A Historic Day In Washington

Lewis stood near MLK on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, and was the youngest speaker of the day. (See video below, and a transcript of Lewis’ speech can be read here, and the original speech before edits can be read here.)

He recalled the scene as he took the podium:

“Hundreds of thousands of young people — students and volunteers, black and white — up in the trees, trying to get a better view,” Lewis told Here & Now.

In his speech, Lewis aired his misgivings about the 1964 Civil Rights Act — which was still just a bill at the time — because he thought there wasn’t enough in the protecting people from violence in the South.

“We are tired of being beaten by policemen,” Lewis said in his 1963 speech. “We are tired of seeing our people locked up in jails over and over again. And then you holler, ‘Be patient.’ How long can we be patient?”

  • Audio: Rep. John Lewis on how he first met Martin Luther King, Jr

Inspiring A New Generation

Fifty years later, Lewis worries that people are not as engaged in the struggle for civil rights.

We all can get into good trouble, necessary trouble, to change things.
– Rep. John Lewis

“I’m deeply concerned that the present generation failed to grasp what happened,” Lewis said. “That’s why I think it is so important for young people — and people not so young — to know there’s a role for them to play. I have a feeling that people are just too quiet. And the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington is a good opportunity for them to move their feet.”

Lewis is writing his memoirs in the form of a graphic novel, “March: Book One” (see three pages below).

He says that he was inspired to participate fully in the civil rights movement because of a comic called “Martin Luther King Jr. and the Montgomery Story,” and hopes his graphic novel could inspire the same response.

The comic he read in 1957 inspired him to “sail against the wind,” even to be arrested for what he believed in.

“The first time I got arrested I felt free, I felt liberated,” Lewis said. “We all can get in the way. We all can get into good trouble, necessary trouble, to change things.”

Page 27 of "March: Book One." (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Page 27 of “March: Book One.” (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Page 77 of "March: Book One." (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Page 77 of “March: Book One.” (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Page 103 of "March: Book One." (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Page 103 of “March: Book One.” (Courtesy of Top Shelf Productions)

Guest

  • John Lewis, U.S. Representative for Georgia’s 5th congressional district.

Transcript

MEGHNA CHAKRABARTI, HOST:

Well, over the next week, a host of events will be taking place in Washington, D.C., leading up to next Wednesday's 50th anniversary of the 1963 March on Washington. More than a quarter-million people turned out for the historic civil rights rally that's largely remembered for Martin Luther King, Jr.'s legendary "I Have a Dream" speech.

The march is also credited with giving needed momentum to the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Congressman John Lewis, of Georgia, was there that day. He was just 23 years old at the time and chairman of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, one of the most important groups in the American civil rights movement. Lewis stood near King on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, and was the youngest speaker of the day.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

A. PHILIP RANDOLPH: I have the pleasure to present to this great audience young John Lewis, national chairman, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Brother John Lewis.

REP. JOHN LEWIS: When A. Philip Randolph called my name or introduced me, I went straight to the podium. Then I said to myself - I said, I must go for it. And I started speaking.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

LEWIS: We march today for jobs and freedom, but we have nothing to be proud of, for hundreds and thousands of our brothers are not here...

CHAKRABARTI: Congressman Lewis is the last person alive who spoke on that day. We talked with him about it when he recently visited the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library, in Boston. He began by telling us how Kennedy first reacted when civil rights leaders told him they were planning to march on the nation's capital.

LEWIS: That was back in June, when we met with the president. A. Philip Randolph, this dean of black leadership, this prince of a man, spoke up in his baritone voice, and he said Mr. President, the black masses are restless, and we're going to march on Washington.

You could tell by the body language of President Kennedy he didn't like the idea, someone talking about marching on Washington.

CHAKRABARTI: The march hadn't even been formally planned at that time, right?

LEWIS: Not at all, not at all, but the idea, he thought, of bringing hundreds and thousands of people to Washington, he said if you bring all these people to Washington, won't there be violence and chaos and disorder, and we will never get a civil rights bill through the Congress.

Mr. Randolph responded and said Mr. President, this will be an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent protest.

CHAKRABARTI: You were just 23 at the time.

LEWIS: I was 23 years old, I had all of my hair and a few pounds lighter.

CHAKRABARTI: You were speaker number six on that day. First of all, just tell me what you saw.

LEWIS: Hundreds and thousands of young people, students, volunteers, black and white, up in the trees trying to get a better view. Then I looked straight ahead, and I saw so many people. I saw many, many young people and people not so young with their shoes off, their feet in the water trying to cool off on this hot August day.

CHAKRABARTI: Now your speech, Congressman Lewis, on that day, many people think that it's actually as memorable, possibly, as Dr. King's was because Dr. King gave this resounding sermon, almost, about hope and dreams in America. Is it fair to say that your speech was something of a counterpoint about the reality of what was happening in the South at that time?

I mean, in the speech you say that we come here today with a great sense of misgiving...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED SPEECH)

LEWIS: It is true that we support the administration's civil rights bill. We support it with great reservation, however. Unless Title III is put in this bill, there's nothing to protect the young children and old women who must face police dogs and fire hoses in the South while they engage in peaceful demonstration.

CHAKRABARTI: Basically because you didn't feel that enough was in the civil rights bill to protect people against violence in the South.

LEWIS: I thought it was a little too little and too late. And down in the body of the speech, I said listen, Mr. President, listen members of Congress, wake up, wake up, you're trying to take the revolution out of the streets and put it in the courts. I said you tell us to wait, you tell us to be patient...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED SPEECH)

LEWIS: We are tired, we are tired of being beat by policemen. We're tired of seeing our people locked up in jail over and over again, and then you holler be patient. How long can we be patient? We want our freedom, and we want it now.

(APPLAUSE)

LEWIS: But what people really didn't like, near the end of the speech, I said something like if we do not see meaningful progress here today, the day may come when we will not confine our marching on Washington, but we may be forced to march through the South the way Sherman did, nonviolently.

It was oh, no, you can't say that, John. And it was Martin Luther King, Jr., who said to me John, that doesn't sound like you. And we deleted that from the speech.

CHAKRABARTI: And yet it was still so passionate and forthright. I'm asking you about this because we're speaking a half-century later, and it's very easy with that kind of distance to look back on momentous events like this through kind of rose-colored lenses, isn't it? And yet in 1963, there was horrific violence going on in major parts of the country.

There was no guarantee, as President Kennedy said, that the civil rights bill would be passed.

LEWIS: Well, 1963 was an unbelievable year. Hundreds and thousands of people had been arrested and jailed. Bull Connor, the police commissioner in the city of Birmingham, had used dogs and fire hoses on people, little children, on women. We had to act. We had to do something. I remember the morning of August 28, 1963, before we made it to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, we met with the leadership of the House, the leadership of the Senate, both Democrats and Republicans.

And then we started walking down Constitution Avenue. We saw hundreds and thousands of people already marching. Now we were supposed to be their leaders. It was almost like saying there go my people, let me catch up with them.

CHAKRABARTI: Congressman Lewis, you are the last living person who gave a speech that day. Is there any part of you that's concerned that there is a page turning now in American history, past that moment of this great social upheaval when it came to equality or reaching for equality in America?

LEWIS: I'm deeply concerned that the present generation failed to grasp what happened. That's why I think it's so important for young people and those not so young to understand that there's a role for them to play. I have this feeling that people are just too quiet. They need to make some noise. And the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington is a good opportunity for people to move their feet.

You know, Dr. King said on one occasion there's nothing more powerful than the marching feet of a determined people.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CHAKRABARTI: Congressman John Lewis of Georgia. We'll have more of our conversation with him after the break. Stay with us, HERE AND NOW.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CHAKRABARTI: It's HERE AND NOW. Let's listen now to more of our conversation with Congressman John Lewis. He's the last person still living who spoke at the historic March on Washington in 1963, which celebrates its 50th anniversary next week. The most famous moment from the march was, of course, Martin Luther King, Jr.'s inspirational "I Have a Dream" speech.

Lewis' speech had a different tone. He wasn't afraid to criticize the federal government directly that day, and I asked him about it when we talked recently at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston.

To me, one of the most powerful and plainspoken moments of your 1963 speech was when you talked about your frustration with the political process. Right, you'll remember these lines, and you said...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED SPEECH)

LEWIS: By and large, American politics is dominated by politicians who built their career on immoral compromise and allow themselves an open forum of political, economic and social exploitation. There are exceptions, of course. We salute those. But what political leader can stand up and say my party is a party of principles, for the party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland.

(APPLAUSE)

LEWIS: The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party?

CHAKRABARTI: How much of that misgiving do you think remains true today?

LEWIS: Oh, I think in American politics, so much of that still exists today. First of all, there's too much money, too much money. We sell and buy election like we're selling soap. Maybe, just maybe, we should come to that point and have public financing of federal election or maybe state election, maybe local election, and take money out of American politics.

CHAKRABARTI: Easier said than done.

LEWIS: It is easier said. It's very difficult to get it done.

CHAKRABARTI: I saw you in a New York Times video a couple days ago that was - it was a companion to an article in the Times written about you, and when it comes to race in America, you said it's better now than it was in 1963. And that got me thinking: Isn't that also what Chief Justice John Roberts was saying when he wrote that decision overturning key parts of the Voting Rights Act? 'Cause I'm looking at his opinion, and he writes: Our country has changed. While any racial discrimination in voting is too much, Congress must ensure that the legislation it passes to remedy that problem speaks to current conditions.

LEWIS: We have changed. We have made progress. But we changed, we made progress because of the Voting Rights Act. Without that act, we wouldn't be where we are today. But before the ink was dried on the paper, states like North Carolina, Texas, Arizona, Mississippi tried to take us back.

I don't want to go back to the days of the literacy tests. When I spoke at the March on Washington, at least in that prepared text, I was reading a copy of the New York Times, and I saw a group of women in a photograph in the Times saying, one man, one vote. So I said, one man, one vote is the Africa cry. It is ours, too. It must be ours.

The vote is precious, almost sacred. It is the most powerful nonviolent instrument or tool that we have, and everybody should be able to use that tool. I know people who died for the right to vote.

CHAKRABARTI: Finally, I want to ask you about the future. You've got a new book out, it's a new memoir, it's the first of three parts. It's called "March Book One," and you've chosen an interesting format to tell this story. What format have you chosen?

LEWIS: Well, we have decided to make it simple, make it plain, make it easier for young people and people not so young to understand what happened.

CHAKRABARTI: It's a graphic novel.

LEWIS: It's a graphic novel. And you can almost taste or feel or smell what is happening. You know, in - talk about growing up, yes, I talk about my parents telling me don't get in trouble, don't get in the way, and Dr. King and Rosa Parks inspired me to go out there and not just walk with the wind but sail against the wind, or to get arrested.

The first time I got arrested, I felt free, I felt liberated. I want young people to read it and to be inspired. 'Cause years ago, a comic book came out, back in 1957, called "Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Montgomery Story." It sold for 10 cents. I remember that comic book. I read that book. It inspired me, and it inspired the four students who took seats at a lunch counter on February 1, 1960, in Greensboro, North Carolina.

We all can make a contribution. We all can get in the way. We all can get in good trouble, necessary trouble to change things.

CHAKRABARTI: So what is the unfinished work of August 28, 1963?

LEWIS: That we must complete what we attempted to do during the '60s. Open up America, open up the society and let everybody come in. And end discrimination based on race and color, nationality, sexual orientation and create what I like to call one house, the American house. We all live in the same house. We're one family. We're one people.

CHAKRABARTI: Congressman Lewis, thank you so very much for speaking with me.

LEWIS: Well, thank you very much, thank you so much.

CHAKRABARTI: Congressman John Lewis spoke with us at the Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston.

JEREMY HOBSON, HOST:

And as you said, Meghna, lots of events being planned leading up to the anniversary of the March on Washington. A commemorative rally along the same route that marchers took in 1963 will take place at the Lincoln Memorial this Saturday. And next Wednesday, a march on the National Mall. President Obama will speak from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, the same place where Martin Luther King and Congressman Lewis spoke 50 years ago.

CHAKRABARTI: And with that in mind we thought we'd listen back to a little more of Lewis' 1963 speech, where he demands that America wake up.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED SPEECH)

LEWIS: If we do not get meaningful legislation out of this Congress, the time will come when we will not confine our march into Washington. We will march through the South, through the streets of Jackson, through the streets of Danville, through the streets of Cambridge, through the streets of Birmingham.

(APPLAUSE)

LEWIS: But we will march with the spirit of love and with the spirit of dignity that we have shown here today. By the forces of our demands, our determination and our numbers, we shall send a desegregated South into a thousand pieces, and put them together in the image of God and democracy. We must say wake up America, wake up for we cannot stop, and we will not and cannot be patient.

(APPLAUSE)

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOW WE GOT OVER")

MAHALIA JACKSON: (Singing) ...never get tired. You know I'm going to shout, come around the altar. And I'm going to sing, glory halleluiah...

CHAKRABARTI: The incomparable Mahalia Jackson, she sang at the 1963 March on Washington. She sang "How We Got Over." News is next, HERE AND NOW. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


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  • Jim Bull

    Robin suggested during the interview that Rep. Lewis’s speech was a counterpoint to Dr. King’s optimistic, upbeat “I Have a Dream Speech.” I can only surmise that she had not read the full-text of that speech. As my pastor, Rev. Edwin Rowe says, too often the “I have a dream” section is used in isolation, taken out-of-context. What preceeds it is King’s analysis of the nightmare we were in, and in some ways are still in. KIng was every bit as pointed as Rep. Lewis. Working for the dream, the grad vision was articulating a way out of the nightmare that both eloquently spoke about. King talked about a check that had not been cashed, and about the evils of gradualism. I thought NPR was better than this kind of superficial anaylysis I expect in the mainstream media.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Hi Jim,

      Thank you for your comment. I did read the entirety of Dr. King’s speech, and both versions of Rep. Lewis’s speech (as originally written, and the version he delivered on the day). I listened to them as well. I had copies of all three with me when I met with Rep. Lewis.

      That portion of the interview was meant to explore the differing tone between the speeches, and the fact that Lewis’s original text was so direct (he wanted to ask President Kennedy: “Which side is the federal government on?”), that he was asked by King himself to soften the language.

      You are right that King’s speech was also an analysis of the nightmare. Lewis’s speech named specific names and events in a manner that King did not. I felt that was worth a little exploration.

      Thank you for your careful attention and listening.

      • Meghna Chakrabarti

        And just to clarify, I did the interview, not Robin Young. She’s innocent of any transgression, real or perceived!

  • Prolesharanon

    The show in general is rather superficial, and a wee bit too pop culture-y. But, this particular piece was well done and John Lewis has so much important things to say that I came away feeling enriched by hearing him, then and now.

  • China Galland

    Great show, Meghna! Congressman John Lewis is a national treasure and lived the message of non-violence time and time again during the Civil Rights movement.

    I had the privilege of interviewing Congressman Lewis along with Elwin Wilson, the KKK sympathizer, who had brutally assaulted him and beat him up in a train station during the Civil Rights movement in the 1960′s. Congressman Lewis never raised a hand to defend himself against Wilson. Wilson and Lewis both described this encounter of Elwin beating up Lewis and Lewis refusing to hit back. Congressman’s Lewis’s discipline and a commitment to the spirit of non-violence and love, both then and now is profound and profoundly moving. It was this commitment to non-violence that was at the heart of the success of the Civil Rights movement in the 1960′s.

    Taking Gandhi as their model, who was in turn influenced by his own deep understanding of Hinduism and non-violence and by Thoreau amongst others, Dr. King. James Farmer, Jr., and John Lewis among others, followed in the footsteps of Rosa Parks and the many powerful black church women who preceded the Civil Rights movement and made it happen.

    It was the church women who told King to step up, he needed to step into a leadership role, ready or not. The Civil Rights movement adopted Gandhi’s non-violent path. If Gandhi’s tactics could free an enormous country like India from the British in 1949, non-violence could certainly free the United States from the racism that was strangling democracy.

    As King once famously said, “God is not done with me yet,” nor is our democracy done with this haunted history of our past. The Civil Rights movement was an extraordinary moment and we all need to know our multi-facted past.

    Elwin Wilson publicly apologized to Lewis on national television before our interview, an apology which Congressman John Lewis accepted with characteristic dignity and generosity. The privilege of sitting with these two men and hearing them recount this first violent encounter was riveting. To know that decades later, Elwin Wilson had a change of heart and somehow managed in a very public way — on national television — to apologize to Congressman Lewis was an inspiring example of how simple it is to say “I’m sorry,” and how long it sometimes takes to say it genuinely as Wilson did.

    Congressman Lewis was being recognized and given an award for his extraordinary and very public act of forgiveness of Wilson at the annual International Forgiveness Alliance Conference that takes place at Dominican College each year in San Rafael, California, http://www.forgivenessalliance.org.

    Hats off to the dedication of the International Forgiveness Alliance founder Bob Plath, supporters like Lori Grace, and to best-selling author and speaker, Marianne Williamson. Williamson returned again this year and gave a workshop on Forgiveness. It was their 17th annual gathering.

    We interviewed Lewis, Wilson, and Williamson for “Resurrecting Love,” our documentary film that takes place in East Texas. Video clips & trailers, excerpts from our footage, can be found on “YouTube.com/resurrecting love movie” as well as on our website “www.resurrectinglovemovie.org”
    “Resurrecting Love” is sponsored by the non-profit San Francisco Film Society. You can join in our joyful race to finish “Resurrecting Love” this year and make a tax-deductible donation: ” http://www.sffs.org/donate/donate-now.aspx?pid=477

  • ocdhickson

    For any good journalist the first question to John Lewis should have been “are you going to be lying during this interview”. Mr. Lewis’ other famous march was his walk to the Capitol to vote on the healthcare reform bill where he claimed he was called a n***er. The encounter was recorded from a myriad of perspectives with no evidence that Mr. Lewis was telling the truth. There was even a $100,000 reward offered for any video that proved the encounter happened as Mr. Lewis said and nothing ever surfaced.
    Mr. Lewis along with many who participated along side of Dr. King has evolved from civil-rights hero to common race-baiter. I wonder what MLK would think?

  • Charlottesville

    Thank you for this interview! Congressman Lewis made his point loud and clear: we must get involved and step up to the plate, to treat all others as we would be treated and thereby stop racism. He is a great man whose message we need to heed. Race relations are better from the time I was a child and remember separate lunch counters, separate water fountains, news of lynchings, closing schools and housekeepers who I thought only had a first name. These are stories that young people do not hear now so your radio show is vital. We must speak up and educate. BUT we have a long road ahead. Just today our local newspaper published an outrageously racist political “cartoon”. The paper will be called on this and the “cartoon’s” sponsor (MRC) should be called on it too. It is Congressman Lewis’ plea for action that has inspired me to get more involved. Bless you.

  • JonFraudCarry

    John Lewis has spent his entire career furthering racial tension. His lie about being called the n-word during the Obamacare sessions. His ceaseless accusations of Republicans of wanting to bring back segregation even though it was his own party of Democrats who enforced segregation in the South. His constant support of the welfare system which has enslaved this fellow Blacks on the Democrat poverty plantation. The man is a disgrace.

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