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Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Biden Meets With Gun-Safety, Victims Groups

Vice President Joe Biden, with Attorney General Eric Holder at left, speaks during a meeting with victims' groups and gun safety organizations in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building on the White House complex in Washington, on Wednesday. (Susan Walsh/AP)

Vice President Joe Biden, with Attorney General Eric Holder at left, speaks during a meeting with victims’ groups and gun safety organizations in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building on the White House complex in Washington on Wednesday. (Susan Walsh/AP)

Vice President Joe Biden on Wednesday heard personal stories of gun violence from representatives of victims groups and gun-safety organizations as he drafts the Obama administration’s response to the shooting at a Connecticut elementary school. He pledged that action would be taken.

“I want to make it clear that we are not going to get caught up in the notion (that) unless we can do everything we’re going to do nothing,” Biden said. “It’s critically important (that) we act.”

The meeting was part of a series Biden is holding this week to build consensus around proposals to curb gun violence after the Dec. 14 shooting in Newtown, Conn. Twenty school children were killed.

Biden meets Thursday with the National Rifle Association and other gun-owner groups. Meetings with representatives of the video-game and entertainment industries also are planned.

President Barack Obama wants Biden to deliver policy proposals by the end of the month. Obama has vowed to move swiftly on the package, which is expected to include legislative proposals and executive action.

Participants in Wednesday’s meeting with Biden included the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence and groups from Arizona, Illinois and Wisconsin, states with spates of gun violence that garnered national attention, including the shooting in Arizona of then-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Also present were two survivors of the 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech that killed 32 people, as well as a stepfather of a victim of last July’s massacre at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., in which a dozen people were slain. Attorney General Eric Holder also attended.

But as the shock and sorrow over the Newtown, Conn., shooting fades, the tough fight facing the White House and gun-control backers is growing clearer. Gun-rights advocates, including the powerful NRA, are digging in against tighter gun restrictions, conservative groups are launching pro-gun initiatives and the Senate’s top Republican has warned it could be spring before Congress begins considering any gun legislation.

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  • it

    Natural Born Killers was on last night. I thought its’ display of the effects of child abuse, neglect and trauma where correct. The media sensationalism of violence shown in that movie was spot on also. If Biden is going to talk to video game makers then he needs to talk to the major media outlets. Why do I need to know the names of these killers, thier life stories and a walkthrough of the massacares? Everyone knows the media glorification of these killers had as much to do with Columbine as the guns they used. They wanted to be famous and every time the media says their names, the dreams of maniacs are fulfilled.

    • Robert Riversong

      So you would restrict the 1st amendment in order to limit its effects on sociopaths and psychopaths?

      • Ted

        What are you Bob, some aid to Gov. Cuomo.
        No television or mainstream media. What a good boy.
        A real free thinker.

        • Robert Riversong

           When you grow up and address me by my name, then we may be able to engage in conversation (but I doubt you’re capable of anything approaching a mature and constructive dialogue).

  • Katta

    BIRTH CONTROL TODAY, GUN CONTROL TOMORROW, MIND CONTROL THE DAY AFTER, THEN WE REST. 

    • Robert Riversong

       And the entire world would fall to communism if we lost the Vietnam War.

  • Ben

    The Globalists are on the march. Got to take away your guns, all of them.
    The created the “false flag” operation at Sandy Hook, Aurora and others to jolt the public in some action.
    Naturally, these politicians have the solution ready to be legislated.
    There will be more shootings until the public gets the message.
    Another CIA Manchurian Candidate is getting programmed for more incidence.
    Those so called “lone gunmen” who are medicated to the hilt on psychotropics.
    Add the RHIC-EDOM to the mix which these shooters have implanted within their bodies.

     
    Radio Hypnotic Intra-Cerebral Control & Electronic Dissolution of Memory

    • Robert Riversong

      In addition to assault weapons and large-capacity magazines, we need to consider outlawing tin-hat conspiracy nutcases and locking them away as the mentally deranged that they are.

      • Bob

        Hey Bobby, back to the nightly news for your daily indoctrination and brainwashing by the mainstream media.
        And don’t forget to take your medications-all of them at once.

        • Robert Riversong

          Just because you go through life as a child doesn’t mean we adults do, Bobby. My name is Robert.

          I haven’t owned a TV set or watched mainstream media since 1974.

          Those of us with an independent and capable mind actually do our own research, using primary and reputable sources, while the rest of you drink the koolaid.

      • PlasMan

        We need to jail people for expressing opinions? Sorry–grew up next door to a big country that did that, and don’t think much of it. Believe me–that approach doesn’t reduce the number of nutcases, either; quite the contrary.

        • Robert Riversong

          We should also euthanize all those who comment on a thread that’s been dead for nearly a year.

          • PlasMan

            Why?

  • Mendon

    Is there going to be any discussion on the 3D printer which is being used to manufacturing Guns?

  • Lfc2560

    Irrespective of one’s thoughts on Gun Laws, it is incumbent on your show to put out accurate information. A Bushmaster is a brand of gun not a type of gun. There are many manufacturers that make a gun based on the AR15 platform. With that said, an AR15, Bushmaster or otherwise is semi-automatic and shoots no faster than a pistol or revolver for that manner. A detachable magazine is once again no different than the loading system of a standard pistol and has nothing to do with how fast the gun can be shot. It is fine to support or not to support firearms ownership but please do your research and provide accurate information to your listeners so that they may make and informed and competent decision.

    • Robert Riversong

      A semi-automatic weapon can be fired at a faster rate than a double-action handgun or bolt-action rifle, and can be fired more continuously with large-capacity magazines than a six-shot revolver. It is you who is distorting the facts.

      A 911 recording from the Aurora theater clearly includes 30 gunshots in 27 seconds. No gunman with a revolver could accomplish that. The 12 people who died had 33 bullet wounds, and the gunman was able to fire 224 bullets in just a few minutes.

      • Lfc2560

        That is incorrect. Semi automatic simply means 1 pull of the trigger equals one shot, the spent casing is ejected, and a fresh round is chambered. That is all it means. Just like a pistol double or single action. Pistols can be purchased with 30 round magazines. Just like a rifle can. And as far as cycle of operation I would suggest you check your facts , very frequently there are demonstrations of double action guns firing multiple shots in under a second. I for one could easily accomplish 30 shots in 27 seconds with a pistol with standard capacity magazines reloads included. And might I add the shooter in Aurora had more than one gun thus eliminating the need for reloads.

        • Robert Riversong

          You’ re being  dangerously disingenuous.  A semi-auto rifle can be fired at least two or three times faster than a bolt-action rifle, and even moreso without aiming, such as in the case of random shooting into a crowd.

          Large-capacity magazines in such mass shootings almost always result in much higher casualty rates. In the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, the gunman was tackled by two unarmed bystanders when he was trying to change magazines, but had already managed to kill or wound 19 people before reloading.

          The shooter in the Aurora theater fired at least 209 bullets from his AR15 before it jammed and he had to switch to a handgun.

          Most mass shooters are not highly trained or experienced target or competition shooters, and are significantly assisted in their lethality by the weapons technology.

          • Lfc2560

            I never compared a semi auto to a bolt action rifle. I simply explained what semi auto meant and stand by my definition. Any semi auto gun will fire as fast as the trigger can be pulled. This is inclusive of any gun that doesn’t require the shooter to manually cycle the action such as a pump shot gun, single action revolver, or bolt gun. Also please define “Assault Weapon” and “Large Capacity Magazine” . Typically the definitions used by the govt in past legislation has had nothing to do with the lethality of the gun but rather the appearance . I would be interested to hear what you think makes a gun an assault weapon.

          • Robert Riversong

            However, I’m not interested in having a “conversation” with a dishonest propagandist.

          • Lfc2560

            Resorting to name calling is always the easy way out. Please tell me where I have been dishonest, lied, or put out any half truths, if you recall you responded to me. And as far as a propagandist goes, what exactly is my propaganda? I simply asked that the show put out accurate information . You engaged me in conversation. Actually you don’t even know if I am pro or anti gun. But you feel it appropriate to label me. To be honest I don’t expect you to have the wherewithal to reply given your last post.

            Bottom line is while you may not like what I had to see I challenge you to disprove its accuracy.

          • Robert Riversong

            “an AR15, Bushmaster or otherwise is semi-automatic and shoots no faster
            than a pistol or revolver for that manner. A detachable magazine is
            once again no different than the loading system of a standard pistol and
            has nothing to do with how fast the gun can be shot.”

            Both statements are demonstrably false, and I demonstrated that.

            When I stated so, you responded with “That is incorrect”- merely reasserting your falsehood. The statement you declared “incorrect” compared  a semi-auto rifle with a bolt-action rifle, but you then responded “I never compared a semi auto to a bolt action rifle”.

            The last was an outright lie.

            Hence naming you a dishonest propagandist, for your proven lies and for repeating the same propaganda that the NRA spews in defense of the unrestricted “right” to own an assault weapon, is not “name calling” but rather calling a spade a spade.

          • Lfc2560

            Actually you said a double action hand gun thus my “incorrect” and once again please tell me how my statement that a semi auto rifle shoots no faster than a semi auto pistol or revolver is demonstrably false. Your statements hold no merit. Not once have I quoted the NRA as I am not a member., nor have I ever been nor will I become one. Not that it is anyone”s business. The fact of the matter is that you clearly are under educated on the topic, you have no rational , factual response to my statements. You hide behind a keyboard and “spew” incorrect information. Please educate yourself on the matter. You have yet to answer my question regarding what is and and what is not an Assault Weapon or a High Capacity Magazine which is further evidence of your unwillingness to enter into rational and accurate debate. Quite honestly your argument would hold more merit if you simply said guns were icky and they scared you. Instead you resort to rhetoric and name calling.

          • Lfc2560

            Might I add that the school shooting with the highest body count to date (Va Tech) was done with semi auto pistols and standard capacity magazines.

  • Dominick

    All guns should have an associated TITLE and BILL OF SALE just like we have for cars. Each transaction will have a paper trail. All owners will be on record just like DMV. The gov can regulate who has them and if an owners legal status changes due to mental illness or felony etc, the guns can be removed. Ownership can be taxed as personal property, like cars are in many places. Person to person sales can be regulated and traced by a Bill Of Sale and registration requirements. Shooting ranges should require paperwork to prove legal possession. This allows for good guys to keep their guns, keeps tabs on where they are, provides Gov revenue and allows for the gov to come down hard on bad guys not obeying these laws.

  • SamMosin

    Restricting the liberty of all Americans because we haven’t adequately dealt with mental health is not the way to go. In my county, we have six local law enforcement agencies, plus state and federal agencies. We share one mental health office with three other counties. The knee-jerk reaction to “do something” runs a great risk of painting with too broad a brush.

    • Robert Riversong

      That same “broad brush” can mistakenly paint all mass shooters, let alone all murderers, as insane. That is a judgement often made after the fact, because we assume you’d have to be crazy to do such a thing, when there is often little or no evidence of anything more than normal instability prior to the incident.

      Many mass shootings are secondary to loss of job or loss of relationship, with no prior history of mental illness (remember the “going postal” meme?).

  • 1huntnandrew

    I’d like to see legitimate comparisons with stats. The FBI’s release of 2011 stats has more to it than what is reported on. D.C., New York, and Chicago have more violent crime, yet the strictest gun control laws. When there are thousands, to tens of thousands of American gun crimes assaults or incidents, yet only about 300 consist of rifles being used. (Black rifles) are a small fraction of “rifle”. Why isn’t this reported on, or brought to our attention? What does it mean when there are 11,000 gun crimes committed here in the U.S? It means there are tens of millions of guns not being used. Its a responsibility and character issue.

    • Robert Riversong

      Responsibility and character cannot be legislated. Gun availability and the ability to track guns and ammunition from manufacture to use can be. Banning guns and magazines that have no legitimate purpose other than mass killing is rational and necessary (that includes handguns with large-capacity mags) – with no loopholes, no exclusions, and no grandfathering. Universal gun registration, including mandatory reporting of stolen or missing guns, is also rational and necessary.

    • Carmel guy

      11,000 gun crimes? I’m not sure where you’re getting your statistics, but crimes involving guns committed in the U.S. approach 300,000 annually, according to the FBI Uniform Crime reports. 

      The majority of those are assault and robbery, murder is also included. It is also important to note that all agencies (police departments) across the country don’t report stats to the FBI, so the actual gun crime numbers are higher.

      Also important to note that certain crimes (i.e. rape, burglary) stats aren’t reported as to whether or not a gun was involved, so again, the actual gun crime numbers would be higher still.

  • Papajon

    Dear moderator,
    You are not helping your perspective on gun control when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about;1) bushmasters projectiles are the same size as a .22 round, 2)every semi-automatic firearm loads the next round in the clip, 3)the shell casing holds more powder which increases its velosity only. . . not the projectile.  I encourage you to do some “hands on” research rather than parroting the babble-blogs. “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.”

    • Robert Riversong

      In fact, most outlaws get their guns from licensed gun dealers, straw-man purchases at gun shows, or private sales.

      “Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes.” – ATF agent Jay Wachtel

  • It

    It was shown the Columbine shooters motif was they wanted to be famous. When is the media going to start to call for regulation that infringe on the first amendment as much as they call for infringement on the second? The use of the names of people who carry out these attacks by any media outlet should carry a penalty. They are trying to move the line on what the second amendment protects so why can’t the line on what the first protects be moved?

    • Robert Riversong

      In fact, the second amendment never granted the individual right to bear arms outside of a “well-regulated militia” controlled by Congress to put down citizen insurrections (Article 1, Section 8), but the 1st amendment prevented prior restraint by government on the press (though libel and defamation can be prosecuted, just as can misuse of guns).

  • Anon

    What it really comes down to is the owners will not comply so they will be targeted which oh yea will have validated thier claims. Weird how that works

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