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Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Is The Secession Movement Succeeding?

A screenshot taken Tuesday of the petition to allow Texas to withdraw from the United States.

Within days of the election, dozens of petitions for secession from the United States were gaining signatures on the White House’s “We The People” website.

Now some of the most popular ones have passed the threshold of 25,000 signatures needed to trigger a review and response from the White House.

The White House has a self-imposed limit of 30 days to respond to a petition from the time it gains enough signatures. Kevin Cirilli has been monitoring the petitions for Politico.

He tells Here & Now he would be surprised if the White House doesn’t respond.

“They’ve been very good about answering in the past,” he said. “I think we’ll see something in the next couple of weeks.”

Guest:


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  • Merci

    I think it’s just the usual post election tantrum. Nobody has ever ragequit their country. 

  • Tom

    let them go, those that want secede are our economic Greece, dragging the northeast down.

    • Albertrt

      Look around Northeast. You are already down.

  • Smd1

    Maybe we should take a lesson from professional team owners, and sell Texas to Mexico before they secede.

  • Guest

    I think this is just a movement to demonstrate discontent that President Obama was re-elected for a 2nd term. Are the would-be secessionists truly ready to give up any and all benefits from Federal programs, grants, subsidies, aid from FEMA, and Social Security?

    • Albertrt

      YES WE ARE. By the way, Social Security is my money. The government stole it while I was working and have agreed to pay me back.

  • Beaver Rogers

    The fact that the person you had on air could not correctly pronounce secession made me question his knowledge on the matter.

    • fritzr1950

       These comment forums often seem to encourage extreme venting.  I surely don’t want to come off that way, but I agree, adding “What did he do for brains?” The discussion was a time-waster. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003000884786 Navin R Johnson

    Approximately 0.45% of the population of Texas signed the petition (assuming everyone who signed was from Texas).  I would call that a failure.

  • Bosda

    This is the craziest–no, no–on second thought, let them go.

    Pack all the loonys off to Texas, remove everything Federal that can be move, relocate the Sane up North, and abandon them to their jabbering Roundhead Madness.

    Inside 6 months, Mexico will invade them, and teach them manners. I will, of course, laugh my @ss off.

  • fritzr1950

    Many in the US apparently live in caves.  Gov Rick Perry surely seemed to.  How else to explain Perry’s and others’ total ignorance in suggesting their states secede from the United States.

    Where had Robin’s guest been?  He never mentioned the futility of such ignoramus secessionist views.

    The Civil War settled for good  whether states can secede from the Union.  While the Civil War settled nothing about cities, towns, or counties seceding from their states, suggesting otherwise could amount to more futile assertion, barring one exception.

    The Texas Constitution allows Texas to split up into five smaller states.  So as today’s program brought out, suggesting that Austin might secede from Texas might have possibilities.

    But the state capital, Austin, is going to secede from Texas?  Is everyone asleep?

  • fritzr1950

    Why even allow this conversation?  Are those considering secessionist hot air seriously so starved for worthwhile content as talk about it more than ONE minute?

    • Circusmcgurkus

       We “allow” the conversation because of the very Constitution that many of us love and cherish.  The First Amendment encourages all speech and the answer to speech that offends you is not to silence it but – to mangle the words of the great Justice Brandeis – to encourage more and more and more speech. 

  • BoilerMike

    I signed the petition for Indiana, but I’m under no false illusions that it will succeed.  It was more a symbolic thing, at least for me. 

    Voters were faced with two irreconcilable choices in the past election cycle.  Big gov’t/significantly increased scale of social programs/higher taxes/less freedom/erosion of religious liberty/growth of secular State vs. smaller gov’t/more modest gov’t role in social svcs (but NOT “no role”)/no tax increases/freedom/preservation of religious liberty/private enterprise still the dominant economic driver.  While I wish the Republicans (I consider myself a “conservative-independent”) had nominated a better candidate, that’s no excuse.  The majority of voters want that “I’m from the government, I’m here to help you” society. 

    The country is almost evenly split with a slight majority in favor a more European form of polity.  The values, ethics and principles of the two groups are increasingly divergent.  The drift toward extremism has actually been more prominent in the Democratic Party since 1972.  (Indeed, the modern Republican Party looks more like JFK’s Democratic Party than does the modern Democratic Party.)  Gridlock is the ultimate result when megablocks of voters have opposite views of what needs to be done.  There is no longer a consensus as to what the business of the federal government is.  But we are slightly tipped in favor of an expansive (and expanding) role for the federal government and a significantly greater tolerance for rule by Presidential mandate.

    There is a large minority, though, who will not go that way.  I think this group feels disenfranchised, and they will over time seek out ways to coalesce economically, geographically, socially, etc. with other like-minded people.  Maybe in 50 years, a still recognizably traditional America will exist somewhere in the middle.  So, no I don’t see secession as such, but I do see an inevitable break up of the US over political principles, social values, religious liberty, and economic rights.

  • Chris

    First, it should be made more clear that no states have petitioned to secede.  These petitions have been started by individuals, not by state governments. 

    Second, the number of people having signed these petitions is actually quite small when looked at as a percentage of the total populations of the states involved. 

    How about a discussion of the consequences of secession?  What would happen to federally owned land and assets in the state?  Military bases?  Suddenly unemployed federal workers?  Postal service? 

  • aknman49

    I signed the “other” secession petition:  the one that suggests anyone who is so disaffected with our democracy that they want out of it should be denied the right to participate in it.

    If they don’t love our country, they should leave it…  (remember the “love it or leave it” debate?) and  don’t voluntarily self-deport (remember the “self-deportation debate?) they should at least have their rights of citizenship removed.  

    By signing a secession petition they have essentially expressed disloyalty to our nation.  That’s borderline traitorous. 

  • Scolomin

    The U.S. did not secede from Great Britain. Allowing people or Politico reporters to repeat this without challenge legitimizes a silly argument. The southern states  had entered into a voluntary organization, which wasn’t the case with the colonies. Bad.

  • Sarah H

    Talk about secession is so deeply unpatriotic to the United States of America that it stuns me. The fact that it is coming mostly from residents of Southern states just confirms my suspicion that those signing the online petition probably were or are also birthers, still desperately hanging on to their myth that President Obama was born in Kenya because they can not stand the idea of a Black person in the White House. 

    • Albertrt

      It is not his being black that disturbs us, it is his being Red. (See Soviet Union and Red China. Your reference to race indicates a sever case of bigotry. I am from Ohio, by the way.

  • Montana Bob

    Apparently those who have worried about students not reciting the pledge of allegiance often enough are seeing the results… no one who has subscribed to the pledge to our indivisible republic could sign such a petition.

    • Albertrt

      I frequently recite the pledge of allegiance and I have taken an oath to : “preserve, protect, and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

      The 10th Amendment of that constitution reserves the rights to the states and the people, not to his majesty and his thugs in the Senate. So, we can secede and use the Constitution as our basis for governance. While you Socialist types can have your Federal dictatorship.

  • Carol

    Pass on a message to Kevin Cirilli, concerning his pronunciation of “secede” and “secession.” There is no hard “c” ["k"] sound in either word. (I see others have weighed in on the subject–thanks all)

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/secede

  • Publicus

    If you mean it when you sign the pledge of allegiance, you make yourself a liar if you sign a petition to resign from “the republic for which it [the flag] stands.” 

    If you believe in the republic, then you believe in the rule of law, and the Supreme Court said in Texas v. White that states could not secede (note that spelling, please, and the correct pronunciation of “secede”). 

    When the requisite number of states ratified the Constitution, they did not repeal the Articles of Confederation, just formed “a more perfect union.”  There could be no people who could call themselves “the  people of the United States” as they do in the first words of the Preamble to the Constitution if there were no United States, and the United States is the “stile” given to the country formed when the states subscribed to the Articles of Confederation.  When they did so, they agreed to unite in “perpetual union.”

    So they can’t leave, although most of the states where people signed the petition receive more money and services from the federal government than they pay in.  So it probably wouldn’t be that big a loss to the rest of us, except that as a “Unum” (single entity) formed “E Pluribus” (from many), we’re a lot more powerful on the world stage than if we were a bunch of smaller countries. 

    To bad everyone talking about the Constitution hasn’t bothered to read– and understand– it. 

  • Publicus

    If you mean it when you recite the pledge of allegiance, you make
    yourself a liar if you sign a petition to withdraw from “the republic for
    which it [the flag] stands.” 

    If you believe in the republic, then you believe in the rule of law,
    and the Supreme Court said in Texas v. White that states could not
    secede (note that spelling, please, and the correct pronunciation of
    “secede”). 

    When the requisite number of states ratified the Constitution, they
    did not repeal the Articles of Confederation, just formed “a more
    perfect union.”  There could be no people who could call themselves
    “the  people of the United States,” as they do in the first words of the
    Preamble to the Constitution, if there were no United States– the
    United States is the “stile” given to the country formed when the states
    subscribed to the Articles of Confederation. 

    When they did so, they
    agreed to unite in “perpetual union.”  So they can’t leave– although most of the states where people signed
    the petition receive more money and services from the federal government
    than they pay in.  So it probably wouldn’t be that big a loss to the
    rest of us, except that as a single entity (“unum”) formed from many (“e pluribus”), we’re a lot more powerful on the world stage than if we
    were a bunch of smaller countries. 

    Too bad everyone talking about the Constitution hasn’t bothered to read– and understand– it. 
     

    • Coridan

      Texas v White only stated that the states could not unilaterally secede. There is still a legal process to do it. Through constitutional amendment.

    • Albertrt

      The Democrats, who repeatedly violate the Constitution through executive order and creation of Implied Powers, fall back on it when they do not want someone to disobey them. Secession was an assumed right before the Civil War when the reference was to “these” united states. It became The United States when the right to secede was crushed by military power, not law.

  • Haskellbiz

    The people on this site that keep saying stuff about the pledge of allegiance keep looking at the part about indivisible but not the part that says liberty and justice for all. What liberty and what justice? Also the ignorance of people saying that the talk of secession is treason did not take history in highschool. Secession is what this nation is founded on. When peoples rights are being infringed upon it is not our right but our duty to change it. Don’t talk about things that you are not well versed in. You end up looking like a kid chewing on his own foot. After saying all that i don’t fully agree with the idea of Texas or any other states sucession petitions but I do understand where there coming from

    • Publicus

       This country was NOT “founded on” secession. The Declaration of Independence was NOT a “secession.”  

      But if you think your rights are being infringed, or that you aren’t getting justice, you can use what this country was founded on,  the rule of law, to ensure your liberties.  Elect representatives that hold your view, or sue in court– something that you can do in the United States but in few other countries. Or petition the government (that’s your right under the Constitution).

      When you draft your petition, you might want to check your spelling and punctuation– or did you miss that in high school along with the actual history of this country? 

      By the way, the state of Texas did not submit a petition, a bunch of disgruntled and ignorant Texans– who clearly do not believe in the American principle that the majority rules– did so.  You say you know where they’re coming from?  Clearly it is a place of ignorance of our laws and our Constitution.  Try reading the Constitution some day– you might find it enlightening.   

      • Albertrt

        The rule of law does not exist when the Democrats intimidate the Chief Justice to get a clearly unconstitutional “Heath Care: act supported. The rule of law for the Lefties is when I do what you think is right. 

        There are no American principles of majority rule. That is a democracy and we are a Republic. Look it up. 

        A president elected by lying and voter fraud is not the rule of law.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Edwards/100004748733321 Bob Edwards

    It seems to me that the National Debt would make secession impossible. No state could afford to pay it’s share of the National Debt. (For Texas it would be in excess of $1.3 Trillion). Nor could states “refinance” their share because they would have to pay a much higher interest rate than the U.S. as a whole. Finally, allowing a state to secede without paying it’s share first would create a greater burden on any remaining states, forcing a rush to the exits for all states, and, consequently the dissolution of the US and a default on it’s debt.

  • Circusmcgurkus

    Many comparisons have been made between Presidents Lincoln and Obama.  Let us not let the secessionist movement be among those similar points.  700,000 deaths in the name of Union are more than enough. 

    This is one nation with a whole lot of diversity.  It will necessarily suffer growing pains and disgruntled members.  It would be very boring if we all agreed on everything.   This current flurry of discontent is the equivalent of a teenager slamming the door and yelling, “I hate you!” to her parents when she feels the world has been unfair.  She’ll come around, and hopefully develop better means of communicating her concerns as she matures.

    Our forbears signed the Declaration of Independence by pledging to each other their lives, fortunes and sacred honor. As we recognize our divisions and disagreements, we might do well to heed their sentiments.

  • Omountains

    Secession doesn’t have a chance.  However, it was not really intended to accomplish that goal– but is only to inflame racial hatred. It’s obvious that what people are upset over is that the black president has been voted in again in spite of the strongest possible effort  to prevent that.  The election is over — kaput!  Time now to move ahead and get over it  — Democracy has spoken!.  Always before, the completion of the election  was enough to settle things down.  Now, however, some groups continue stirring the pot and it could easily boil over and we could all get an unwanted final result.

     Immigaration is close to making the white race a minority and the political landscape is changing.  It won’t get better — it will only get worse — it’s here to stay.   The floodgates from Mexico were opened more than ten years ago with an overflow of Mexican immigrants and other immigrants from other countries.  With the rapidly changing cultural shift and ethnic mix now in this country it makes it even more imperative that we find ways to get along in this multi-ethnicity country before we wind up like the Sunnis and Shiites in the middle east and all their continuing blood fueds.

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