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Wednesday, June 25, 2014

Reinstated Methodist Pastor: ‘I Will Never Be Silent Again On LGBTQ Issues’

Former United Methodist pastor Frank Schaefer speaks with reporters after a news conference, Thursday, Dec. 19, 2013, at First United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia. (Matt Rourke/AP)

Frank Schaefer, pictured here on Dec. 19, 2013, has been reinstated as a United Methodist pastor. (Matt Rourke/AP)

Reverend Frank Schaefer says his reinstatement by the Methodist Church “brings a lot of hope” to the LGBTQ community in the Methodist Church.

Reverend Schaefer was defrocked last November for officiating his son’s same-sex wedding, after saying that he would not let Church doctrine stop him from officiating same-sex weddings in the future, if asked.

He has now been fully re-instated and assigned to a new congregation, but the decision has deepened the divide over same-sex and gender issues in the Methodist Church.

The United Methodist Church accepts gay and lesbian members, but bars clergy from officiating same-sex marriages because the Book of Discipline, the ruling Methodist doctrine, calls the practice of homosexuality, “incompatible with Christian teaching.”

Reverend Schaefer discusses the matter with Here & Now’s Jeremy Hobson.

Interview Highlights: Frank Schaefer

On what the reinstatement signifies

“I was very clear throughout my trial and in the aftermath that I would not promise not to perform another gay wedding. Even in spite of that fact, this appeals committee has reinstated me. I think it brings a lot of hope to our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.”

On the change from the defrocking to reinstatment

“Throughout my trial I felt like I never had my day in court. I was not allowed to argue with one portion of our book of discipline against another. I wasn’t even allowed any witnesses on day one when it was about finding innocence and guilt. And even when it came to the penalty on the second day, the frocking part was not based on what I had done, the wedding for my gay son. It was about a promise I could not make. So we have all along argued, ‘Please stick with our rules, with the laws of the United Methodist Church.’ I felt like there was one injustice done after another and so with this ruling, finally, we actually have a committee that has delivered justice.”


  • Frank Schaefer, pastor who has been reinstated by the United Methodist church.



It's HERE AND NOW. Frank Schaefer, the Methodist pastor who was defrocked for officiating his sons same-sex marriage, has been reinstated and assigned to a new congregation. It is a startling reversal that has also deepened the growing rift over homosexuality in the United Methodist Church which has seven million members in the U.S., including prominent ones like Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush. We spoke with Reverend Schaefer and during his trial last year, he's with us today from the studios of WITF in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Reverend Schaefer, thanks for joining us.

REVEREND FRANK SCHAEFER: Oh, absolutely. Thank you for having me Jeremy.

HOBSON: And should we call you Pastor Frank as you've been called in the past? Or Reverend Schaefer? Or how do you want us to describe you?

SCHAEFER: Well, you know, in light of recent developments I am proud to be able to call myself Reverend Schaefer again.

HOBSON: Well, how do you feel about this ruling?

SCHAEFER: I just feel wonderful about it, not just for myself. I mean, obviously I've served the United Methodist Church for twenty plus years, you know, I've really invested a lifetime into my ministry in the church and so feels great for me personally of course to be reinstated. But it's also important for me to have more of a voice within the church. I am now one of the leaders again and I'm speaking with a little bit more authority. And as I have vowed in my trial, I will never be silent again on LGBTQ issues. Now, I can continue that work with even more authority in a more powerful way. Secondly, I believe that this ruling, this reinstating of my credentials really is a wonderful, wonderful news event for our LGBTQ family within the church. I mean, obviously I was very clear throughout my trial and in the aftermath that I would not promise not to perform another gay wedding and even in spite of that fact this appeals committee has reinstated me and I think that brings a lot of hope to our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.

HOBSON: But do you think that was sort of technicality? That they're reinstating you because you haven't done anything wrong, you've just said that you are not going to promise that you're not going to do another same-sex marriage in the future. That you haven't done it yet so they can't very well defrock you for that.

SCHAEFER: Well, I don't call it a technicality. I mean, these are our laws. What I celebrate especially about this is that finally, you know, justice was actually done. Throughout my trial, I felt like I never had my day in court. I was not allowed to argue with one portion of our book of discipline against another. I wasn't even allowed any witnesses on day one when it was about finding innocent and guilt. And then even, you know, when it came to the penalty on the second day, you know, the frocking part was not based on what I had done, the wedding for my gay son, but it was based on a promise that I couldn't make and so we have all along argued that, you know, please stick with our rules with the laws of the United Methodist Church. I felt like, you know, there was one injustice done after another and so this ruling finally we actually have a committee now that has delivered justice.

HOBSON: Do you believe that the church would defrock you once again if you were to officiate another same-sex wedding?

SCHAEFER: It could happen theoretically, but I always say, it all depends on where you are geographically in the United Methodist Church. So I was part of the Eastern Pennsylvania conference, which is rather conservative. But I have actually just been transferred this morning to the Cal Pac, the California Pacific conference at a campus ministry in Isla Vista. They actually just passed at their annual conference a resolution for moratorium on all trials related to LGBTQ issues. So they're light years ahead of where we should be as a church. They're just simply not putting people on trail for really what they feel is according to Jesus teachings and in his spirit.

HOBSON: Well, and it does bring up a question that has been brought up in your church before which is should it split into two?

SCHAEFER: Yeah, that's a very hotly debated topic right now. You have people on both sides, the conservative side as well as the progressive side, arguing for that. But then there's also a large number of people that are in the middle and they're trying to work things out because, I mean, some of them are saying look, in twenty - twenty five years from now, you know, this is not even going to be an issue any more. I mean, look at the times, you know, they're changing. You know, people are changing their minds on this and it's very clear in the polls. So if there's a way to keep the church together as a unity while we, you know, sort this thing out, that's better. There was a proposal that's called a way forward and about 2,200 ministers have actually lent their signatures to this proposal. And this proposal actually says that maybe we should have each and every congregation be autonomous on this matter and decide for themselves where they come out - whether they allow for gay marriage or not.

HOBSON: At the same time though, 80 pastors recently signed a statement saying that the United Methodists have irreconcilable differences, that they want to leave.

SCHAEFER: That's correct. That statement is out there and that is definitely also a petition that's garnering signatures. But if you compare those two - there's no comparison.

HOBSON: Reverend, before I let you go let's talk about the place that you are heading for your new job. You mentioned it's Isla Vista and if people think that sounds familiar it's because that was the site of the terrible massacre recently - six people killed, many more were injured. Do you think that with all of your experience with this church that you're going to be able to bring a message of healing to the people in Isla Vista who have suffered now through so much?

SCHAEFER: That's one of the things I would really like to delve in right away to bring healing and really helping people to work through the trauma and the pain obviously that this has caused and the uncertainty that this will cause, you know, within the student body. So there are many, many opportunities there for ministry as well.

HOBSON: Did you have to do something similar when there was the shooting in the Amish part of Pennsylvania where you are?

SCHAEFER: Yes, absolutely. That was an issue that was definitely traumatic for the entire community and that was very similar. I also recall, you know, 9/11, I actually happened to be a chaplain at Hershey Medical Center at that time and my goodness there was a lot of trauma there as well. I think we had six services the following day and they were all full because people just, you know, needed answers, they needed comfort, and yes. So I am somewhat experienced with this and I'm looking forward to delving right in.

HOBSON: Reverend Frank Schaefer who has just been reinstated by the United Methodist Church after being defrocked last November for officiating at his son's same-sex wedding. Reverend Schaefer, thanks so much.

SCHAEFER: Absolutely and thank you.

HOBSON: And Reverend Schaefer has joined us all along the way on his journey and we've got those interviews, you can listen to them at our website hereandnow.org. This is HERE AND NOW. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Rick

    Thanks for having someone else on from the Methodist Church to explain their position and counter the opinion of your guest. Oh wait, you didn’t. Again.

  • David Kimball

    These churches are so successful at marginalizing themselves. What young person would even think of becoming a member of a church which insists on these archaic, non-loving issues?

    • Individual

      Why join a church that has those rules for that matter? Why not join the churches that allow same sex marriage? Where is this communist pressure for sameness coming from? And so prevalent? We want to eliminate discrimination with more discrimination-just from the opposite side! There are also churches that have their own manuscripts, that do not follow nor believe the Bible as the Word of God-all 66 books! For centuries we have tried to get rid of the Bible- I say good luck! Rip off all the pages that are opposed to our depravities as human beings, still the Word of God is eternal, we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it is not there! You can run from truth and add all the letters of the alphabet to try to redefine man or woman, only in the identity that God has given us we will find true peace and acceptance.

  • Karen

    Congratulations to Rev. Schaefer, once defrocked and now refrocked. My husband and I left the Methodist Church 30 years ago for the more progressive and inclusive Unitarian Church where, in the case of marriage and other things, we are all created equal.

    • it_disqus

      Do you only church surf christian religions? If not, you should look into Taoism.

  • it_disqus

    Why is the Q added to LGBT? What does it cover that the other four letters don’t?

    • Rick

      Pretty soon NPR will stay using the more politically correct acronym, LGBTQIA.
      Hope I didn’t leave any letters out.

  • http://thesidos.blogspot.com/ Arthur Sido

    “I will never be silent again….” When has this particular publicity hound ever been silent about anything?

  • J__o__h__n

    Even when I agree with them, I wish religious leaders would stay out of politics. Myths have no place in making public policy.

  • bikdav

    What Pastor Schaefer did was a very bold thing. He sent a message that this issue needs to be looked at further. It was stated that the Book of Discipline says that Gay Marriage is contrary to Biblical teaching. IF the Book of Discipline has Bible verses to VERY CLEARLY support this claim then I side with the United Methodist church. From my standpoint, the Bible IS the final authority in dealing with such issues.

  • http://smashingidols7.wordpress.com/ Alan Ray

    We visited the UMC for over a year before realizing it justified abortion. We were made aware immediately of it’s ecumenical compromise with the RCC and new age heresies, but we attempted to use the bible study as an opportunity to guide willing hearts from falsehoods to truth. But once we realized this church supported murdering unborn children, it was out of the question to continue to be identified with it, especially since the majority there supported murder.
    To hear that this synogogue of Satan has re-instated a Sodomite pastor, therefore, comes as no surprise. It will surely continue down the wide way to destruction and lead willful fools down with them.

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Robin Young and Jeremy Hobson host Here & Now, a live two-hour production of NPR and WBUR Boston.

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