Are U.S. Military Academies Worth The Money?

Graduating midshipmen sing “Navy Blue and Gold,” the U.S. Naval Academy’s alma mater, during the Academy’s graduation and commissioning ceremonies in Annapolis, Md., in May 2012. (AP/Patrick Semansky)

A debate has emerged over whether U.S. military academies are worth the $400,000 or so per graduate that they cost taxpayers. Bruce Fleming, who has been a professor of English at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., for 25 years, contends that service academies represent a military Disneyland.

Fleming told Here & Now’s Robin Young that Navy and other service academies don’t really attract the best and brightest students, and they don’t really produce leaders. The Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC) and Officer Candidate School (OCS) do a better job of that, he said.

In a statement, the Naval Academy’s public affairs officer Cdr. William Marks defended the school’s record of producing leaders.

“The Naval Academy teaches its Midshipmen to defend the Constitution of the United States, which includes defending the right of its faculty members to express their personal opinions. It is not our practice to comment on the personal views of employees, however we stand by our record of producing the nation’s finest leaders and welcome others to review the facts on their own.”

The Chronicle of Higher Education: The Few, the Proud, the Infantilized

Guest:

Bruce Fleming, professor of English at the U.S. Naval Academy.

We welcome comments from all of our listeners. Post below. Please stay on topic and be civil. Comments may be moderated by us, but you are solely responsible for the content of your comments.

LSUtriguy

I am an ROTC produced Air Force officer, and I have found that, anecdotally speaking, my friends who came from the Academy have such a bad taste in their mouth from everything that happened at the Academy they cannot wait to get out of the Air Force. I feel that ROTC gave me a really great balance of how to be an officer and how to just be a regular student.
fbteditor

My son was admitted to the US Air Force Academy but declined the offer after examining his options and decided to attend The George Washington University with a four-year ROTC scholarship. He said his “civilian” education has been far more “realistic” then he could have ever received at USAFA and ROTC has prepared him to be a good officer. He graduates and will be commissioned in the Air Force in May.
john__riley

Thank you, Mr. Fleming, for doing your duty to democracy by bringing this issue to the fore. I believe many of the institutional problems you voice exist throughout the higher educational system, and elide correction by *virtue* of the youth of their charge (and the silence of institutionally imbedded adults such as yourself). I respect the fact that you constrain your remarks to your own experiences, and I hope your candor at the very least improves our nation’s cornerstone colleges.
Dr_E

Professor Fleming has it right. I joined the Class of ’76 as a midshipman and was appalled to see the amount of time wasted on hazing. It was clear they were taking young men and turning them into boys. I was also appalled to see my roommate kicked out for drunk and disorderly conduct and others dismissed for cheating on homework over the course of my two and one-half years there. During a final Navigation exam in 1974 over 240 varsity athletes were caught cheating but the Nixon White House decided that was too many to dismiss at one time despite being a clear violation of the Honor Code so they announced an amnesty and allowed them all to stay. This was too much for my sense of honor and integrity and I resigned my commission to pursue my medical career elsewhere. The Academies are a playground for the elite and have not been consistent or successful in their application of the ideals they profess to uphold. I support Professor Fleming’s recommendations to make Academy life more real for the participants and to adhere to a strict meritocracy similar to what is done for the enlisted ranks. It could only improve performance.
- Navy Grad
  
  If you only spent two and one-half years there, then I don’t think that you ever got a commission that you could resign, since after that amount of time, you are still only a 2nd Class Midshipman. I imagine that what you meant to say was that you quit and left out of Bilger’s Gate. It seems more likely to me that you probably didn’t like the idea of being a brown water SWO in Vietnam too much.
  - Dr_E
    
    Actually, I rejoined the Navy to serve an additional 9 years in the Medical Corps after working my way through the rest of college and medical school. I still love the service and hope to make it better with feedback. Times apparently have not changed, according to Professor Fleming’s account.
senor amoeba

I graduated from the Naval Academy 20 years ago. I have not heard a more thoughtful, cogent and devastatingly accurate critique of what is wrong with the service academies, ever. Bruce Fleming’s analysis is spot on. Infantilization? Check. Back-door admissions process? Check. (While I was academically qualified with good SAT’s, my grades were okay, I got in because I rowed crew in high school. Athletics has enormous pull in the admissions process. If you want your kid to get into Annnapolis, I would teach him how to play Squash as it is a Varsity sport.) Mr. Fleming has clearly studied this problem for a long time and I applaud the courage he demonstrates speaking truth to power.

My only disagreement with Mr. Fleming is on the subject of affirmative action. Today’s enlisted ranks in the military are highly skewed towards minorities. The reasons for this are myriad and in my opinion regrettable. On balance, I believe the Officer Corps needs to also be skewed in some fashion to more closely mirror this disparity within the enlisted ranks. Otherwise, you will have a situation where a relatively large amount of minorities are subordinate to a tiny proportion of white officers. That cannot be a recipe for success. (BTW, I am about as lilly white as one can be.)

The service academies need to live up to their ideals. They have become anachronistic and need to evolve. I would not be surprised if most of my fellow graduates disagree with Mr. Fleming and myself. Wishing something is not true does not make it so.
bmcoop

I was a midshipman for 4 years graduating in 1995 from USNA. This discussion “are the service academies worth it” comes up with some regularity over time, usually when budgets are tight. I served with enlisted men who became officers through OCS and through USNA, Academy grads, and ROTC grads, and I found that usually one’s personal bias is informed by their own path. The notion that Annapolis does not accept the best and the brightest is nuanced and in my experience totally false – the professor quotes SAT scores without consideration for the other traits military leaders require. Does anyone really think the SAT is a benchmark for personal or scholastic excellence? The service academies are not bashful in their position that they recruit “well rounded” men and women to serve as military officers. That means candidates must possess physical and mental aptitude as well as leadership traits often displayed early in life through civic activity and other venues. Some of the below comments beg obvious questions: how do you define: “realistic” education, do the Academies exceed civilian institutions in instances of cheating, and harrassment/hazing, etc. Comments about hazing are usually made by those who can’t take the heat, and my friends in ROTC spent more time drinking beer than preparing for leadership positions in the military. The hazing process, and make no mistake it is a well regulated and organized process, helped me to perform under pressure and realize the most humbling of life’s lessions: that in order to give an order you better be able to take one. I found the academic curriculum exceptionally rigorous, illustrated by the fact that I majored in Pollitical Science yet hold a Bachelor’s of Science, not a BA. Academy graduates are held to a higher standard by the history of the Naval Service itself. It is a proud tradition and the institution, its flaws notwithstanding, is a crucible within which unbreakable bonds are formed among those who will leads soldiers and sailors in battle. The academies are an invaluable national resource.
BHA_in_Vermont

SAT score under 500? I HOPE that is PER 800 SECTION?
Granted 500 on a section is pretty poor performance but if they are actually admitting people with a TOTAL score of 500, things are even worse than Mr. Fleming makes out.

On another point, how are the Academies taking this flamethrower on their institutions? I imagine Mr. Fleming is eating lunch solo because no one wants to be “guilty by association”.
Jay

As a retired career enlisted in the US Army I came across numerous officers
who were graduates of West Point. Some were excellent, some were drunks, some
were both. They all supported and were supported by the WPPA ( West Point
Protective Association). The case of Col Johnson who was recently court
martialed in Germany and given a slap on the wrist is a case in point of why we
don’t need the service academies anymore.
Rick

As a retired officer, it’s been my long observation that the quality of officers entering the service today are generally of lower quality. I see this not as a result of affirmative action per se, but of a lesser competitiveness of the broader military in the economy. The military is better with a more diverse officer corps, but the problem is one of quality across the board and if we want better talent, the military first has to be an organization they want to join. And that problem has a lot to do with national policy and decision making of late. What military service has turned into is the number one reason I chose to leave.

When it comes to service academies, my experience is that their value to the military lies primarily with the sense of fraternity among their graduates. Quite simply, they feel superior to other officers and use that as primary promotion pool for each other.
ROTC Colonel

As an career Army officer who came through the ROTC program, my reference to Academy grads was limited to fellow officers I worked with through the years. By in large, the quality of Academy graduates were higher than average in certain aspects, Military training, academic qualifications but I would put most ROTC graduates at the same level of competence in leadership skills and physical fitness. All of us are products of the programs we chose to pursue. My social skills were higher as a result of my undergrad experience. I find issue with Bruce Fleming remaining with an institution which he clearly holds in distain.
Tony22279

I am a West Point graduate and just finished listening to Bruce on the radio. Unlike Bruce, I can only speak for West Point since it is the only of the service academies on which I can form a valid opinion. With respect to West Point, he is extremely inaccurate in his understanding of the experience, training, morals, and overall sense of pride gained by graduates. I will add to this comment tonight when I have more time. For now, Mr. Fleming should keep his comments within the restraints of his own experience at the Naval Academy and try not to generalize.
Navy Grad

I graduated from USNA and while I agree with some of Prof. Fleming’s points, but his argument is too sensational. Of course the reality of the Academies differs from what people perceive when they are watching Midshipmen on parade, much the same way that every other Federal institution does. Our own government sets a high moral and ethical standard for itself and some members achieve it while others do not. Professor Fleming paints a picture of Academies that are only admitting the dregs of our national high schools, while my class produced 5 Rhodes scholars alone. That said, it is not the mission of the Academies to feed the ranks of academia, but rather to produce leaders who have “potential for future development in command, citizenship, and government.” The Academies must consider more factors than simply SAT scores, GPA, etc. If the ultimate goal is to produce combat Officers, then perhaps it is more important to have been a sports team captain or president of student council. I argue that the challenges faced by the Academies are the same kind faced by other institutions of similar prestige who lower their standards to stack the football team, meet quotas, etc. Overall, I question Prof. Fleming’s actual devotion to productive change at the Academies given the public nature of most of his criticism. I was a student of Prof. Fleming’s and his criticism seems to have picked up now that he has a book to sell.
- Rick
  
  I have to fundamentally disagree with this post. The primary function of any officer critical, analytical thinking. It is precisely the military’s love affair with athletics that feeds its myth that athletes are better leaders. I believed that too, before I deployed. Once there, athletic history had little to do with it. It’s about good decision making, integrity and leading by example, none of which are determined by virtue of athletic history. The purpose of academics is to develop that ability to think creatively and critically. They need to know other languages and cultures, and need to be able to see beyond ours. If anything, the military needs better educated officers, not more athletic ones.
Joel P Gleason

I was disappointed to see that the interviewer didn’t challenge Prof. Flemming’s assertion that his anecdotal evidence about Annapolis automatically applied to all of the other academies. As aROTC-commissioned US Army Officer, I see a lot of quality officers coming from all three Army commissioning sources and find it hard to accept some of the blanket statements that were made by Mr. Flemming. For an academic, he knows that some of his broad-sweeping comments painting all 4 service academies based on his one are not good scholarship.�
Some of his suggestions seem like they are worth examining further but for now, his article reads as if it is missing some research on 3 of the schools.
MichRadioFan

I’m a retired Navy Officer, commissioned through OCS. I’ve been a USNA Blue and Gold Officer for more than 20 years. It has been nearly 7 years since I’ve had a candidate make it to the Yard. They simply tell me my district is “very competitive.” I counsel candidates to explore ROTC and and urge them to apply to public colleges and apply to OCS after graduation if they want to serve in our great military. From what I’ve seen, the bar is far too high and only the very exceptional candidates seem to make it there. Academies are not for everyone. Much can be said about the graduates of public schools and ROTC. I applaud the professors candor. It assures me that USNA tolerates critical (and even contrarian) thinking, a trait desperately needed in the military today! Regardless of the commissioning source, our nation needs great leaders and traditionally many have come through the academies. I applaud anyone seeking that challenge.
Bob

Robin,
This guy was on NPR earlier this week on Conan’s show. You didn’t allow a single caller to ccounter this guy! Not your usual quality. Obviously, he has a case against the current situation with the Academies. I wonder how he is received on campus.�
Bob
john

I was only able to catch the end of the professor’s argument, but the fact that kids are admitted through the Academy Preparatory Schools is a good thing. Creating diversity and getting recruited athletes and prior service candidates into the academies helps the officer corps overall. At West Point, prep school graduates retain at a higher rate then regular cadets right out of high school. Yes, several prep school cadets each year may take a few decelerated classes at the beginning of their careers to better prepare them for the academic rigors, but they typically catch up after one semester. All they needed was the opportunity to be there.

Personally, I’d rather have Army Football and Lacrosse players leading the charge into Afghanistan then a bunch bookworms. An officers SAT scores are hardly a concern of mine when bullets start flying! GO ARMY! BEAT NAVY!
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=625509950 Gabriel Rodriguez
  
  In my opinion a man’s courage and battlefield experience hold little in regard to what extracurricular activities he did, I want smart intelligent officers leading our enlisted men in to battle. It’s their job to think, and enlisted men’s job to shoot.
Jgmulvihill

Hmmmmmmmm.

My son-in-law attended West Point …….was 1st in his high school class and is an Iraq vet and Bio-Mechanical engineer and will probably get into MIT.

I got into Wesleyan U., and one Ivy school but not the Air Force Academy.

Mr. Flemings axe grinds but his edge is dull 40 years ago and today.
- 1000ships
  
  My husband and I both attended USNA 30+ years ago, and our son was first in his high school class, went to Duke Army ROTC and has finished his command tour in Afghanistan and is an Olmsted scholar. We could compare our son’s and your son- in -law’s accomplishments all evening over some fine wine or spirits. I think that Professor Fleming’s arguments have been heard before, and are mostly emotional, but will continue to resurface as the cost continues to grow. 400k is a lot of money
http://profile.yahoo.com/WODCWI7FMCR5Y6QHEPDSNVBSV4 Latonja PS

How hypocritical of your guest. He would make it seem as though white students who are not qualified don’t make it into these academy’s or any of the top schools in the country. Not being able to pass a test shouldn’t disqualify you from being accepted into these top schools if you can make it through the program. George Bush was nowhere near the top of his class and look at what he accomplished.
Jon Talus

Fleming says ROTC and OTS do a better job of producing leaders. I searched for the RAND Corporation study on this but could not find anything concerning Fleming’s claims. Does anyone know where one can find the facts? Secondly, the debate about getting rid of the sport teams at colleges and universities has gone on in dorms rooms since the first football game at Princeton. Thirdly, the academies are really entitlements like welfare and social security so they can (will) never be eliminated. It’s fun to write a book about it though!
Go Greeks

I graduated from West Point in 2002 and celebrated our 10 year class reunion just this past weekend. I appreciate Prof. Fleming’s courage but both agree and disagree on certain points in regard to West Point. In general, not having spent considerable time embedded at the Naval or Air Force Academies, I cannot comment on their impact to their respective service branches. Similarly, with all due respect to the Professor, he cannot compare our academies with Disneyland having never gone on any of the rides. He is surely entitled to his opinions (I hope his book sells millions) but his sideline view of Annapolis, even for 25 years, cannot provide insight commensurate with that of any graduate - a view from inside the beast and as part of it.
Sharon mother of USNA grad

My son went to USNA as a mother of four successful children his education was outstanding. Everyone of the students I had the pleasure of knowing had offers from Ivy Schools and chose USNA. If you break down the cost security at USNA has to be a large cost. Because we live in a still somewhat free country I suggest professor Fleming retire. USNA deserves the very best.
- Quatermass2
  
  It’s a “somewhat free country”, so Professor Fleming should retire because he says something you don’t agree with. I’d say Canoe U is getting the better end of the current status.
BitterGrad

I’m a ’76 grad from the Air Force Academy. I have the dubious distinction of having had a 4-year AFROTC scholarship and a year at a “real” school before going to “The Zoo”. It was as idiotic then as he portrays things at Annapolis now. Academic standards were much higher back then, but my first room mate had sickle cell anemia. What was THAT all about? He washed out before Thanksgiving. A wasted appointment. It’s bad enough to have a bunch of 19-year-olds yelling at 18-year-olds, but the truth is that the environment is SO out of touch with normal life, and the pressure and emphasis on ridiculous minutiae so prolonged and intense that it takes years to quit having nightmares about the whole rotten experience. I’ll say grads leave with a bad taste in their mouths – I don’t know any that aren’t bitter about being treated like imbeciles for four years. I’ve met Vietnam POWs who were grads and they said the experience was comparable. I don’t doubt it.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=625509950 Gabriel Rodriguez

I know many of the comments are coming from folks who either have
attending the academy or were some how tied to it through a relative, and any criticism of the academy is a bit hard to hear but I fully welcome it. From my experience as a Marine enlisted man, under the officers I have served with. Naval Academy graduates seem no better than their ROTC counterparts once they were in the fleet. I don’t mean discount the numerous amount of fine men and women that graduate and have an outstanding an honorable career from the service academies, but when it comes to down to cold hard facts & results. I was shocked to hear less than 1 in 5 graduates become officers. As a taxpayer, I’m disappointed.
- USNA15
  
  “less than 1 in 5 graduates become officer”—That information in incorrect, everyone who graduates from the service academies (with very, very few exceptions) becomes an officer.
Beat Navy!

I like how Fleming drags West Point into the mix. We all know West Point is much better than the Naval Academy.
GfromDallas

I think it is difficult to pick military leaders at 18 years of age. Leadership is a combination of maturity, intelligence, integrity, physical capability, and drive that is not fully ripened at 18, much less 25. I believe in the idea that our military academies should seek to pick students that have the potential to become our future military leaders and use the best modeling techniques to predict those outcomes based on discrete data. Focusing on failures can be helpful to developing better predictive modeling. Intellectual prowess is not the goal, as it is at some of our most prestigious universities. Ultimately, the academies’ focus should be to develop its students morally, mentally and physically, in order to graduate leaders dedicated to a career in military service, not become an academic ivory tower.