After Texting-While-Driving Conviction, Young Man Pushes For Tougher Law

Reggie Shaw, who at 19 was texting while driving and killed two men. (Courtesy Jason Meredith)

At age 19, Reggie Shaw was texting while driving and killed two men in Utah.

“I texted all the time when I drove. It’s something I did almost every time I got behind the wheel,” he told Here & Now‘s Robin Young. “I thought that it was ok.”

Shaw went to jail for 30 days, and did community service. He also spoke to Utah lawmakers, to get them to pass one of the toughest laws against texting and driving in the country.

“I explained to them that this is a serious problem, that this is as dangerous as anything that you can do behind the wheel,” he said. “A law is going to prevent families from losing their loved ones. People don’t have to go through what I’ve put people through.”

Under Utah’s new law, offenders face up to 15 years in prison.

As The New York Times reports:

The new law…penalizes a texting driver who causes a fatality as harshly as a drunken driver who kills someone. In effect, a crash caused by such a multitasking motorist is no longer considered an “accident” like one caused by a driver who, say, runs into another car because he nodded off at the wheel. Instead, such a crash would now be considered inherently reckless.

Guest

Reggie Shaw

We welcome comments from all of our listeners. Post below. Please stay on topic and be civil. Comments may be moderated by us, but you are solely responsible for the content of your comments.

Drsteevo

Reactionary laws are bad ideas. 15 years in prison is much too severe punishment.

Texting while driving is a technical problem with a technical solution. Require the texting function to be turned off while the phone is moving. Problem solved.
- Lbdanzig
  
  how do you discern, technically speaking, between moving in a car or other?
  - Drsteevo
    
    Just set a speed limit of 20 miles per hour or something like that, if the phone is moving over 20mph then the texting function should be disabled.
    
    We are creating laws that are impossible to enforce.
    - Laurie Shmaurie
      
      What if I’m a passenger on a Greyhound bus, travelling across the country? Am I not to text for days and days, simply because my phone is in a moving vehicle?
      - durbanus
        
        Texting while traveling is not the same thing as texting while driving.
      - Cindy_faville
        
        That’s a silly comment.
    - http://www.everyonetexts.com/ Stevenmeister
      
      There are products like textsmart-drivesafe that stop texting and phone use at 1mph and it’s free but not many seem to care enough to use it – it’s on itunes and google android – people won’t volunteer to do what is safe and legal – its ashame
      
      Steve
- http://profiles.google.com/rickevans033050 Rick Evans
  
  “15 years in prison is much too severe punishment. ”
  
  For killing two innocent people? Hardly. Seems pretty light considering the perp is likely to be paroled. The victims’ families will suffer a lifetime of punishment.
  - Drsteevo
    
    15 years for something that is considered an accident is probably unconstitutional (cruel and unusual punishment). Just having a phone record that shows someone was texting doesn’t prove they were looking at their phone when the accident occurred.
    
    How about this scenario; if someone is riding in your vehicle and you failed to check if they are wearing their seatbelt. You get in a wreck and roll your vehicle and your passenger dies. You killed someone, should you go to jail then?
    
    What about people who don’t wear a helmet on their motorcycle and severely injure themselves, should we throw them in jail too?
    
    We need to be careful when we write new laws, or we will do more damage.
    - http://profiles.google.com/rickevans033050 Rick Evans
      
      “What about people who don’t wear a helmet on their motorcycle and severely injure themselves, should we throw them in jail too?”
      
      They injured themselves. Dumb but not criminal.
      
      A better question might be if the passenger was severely injured while not wearing a helmet should they be punished. In a state with helmet laws yes.
      
      That said an adult riding on a motorcycle without a helmet is making an adult choice to knowingly engage in risky behavior.
      
      The two men killed in this story did not choose to be run off the road by some texting jerk.
      - Drsteevo
        
        “an adult riding on a motorcycle without a helmet is making an adult choice to knowingly engage in risky behavior.”
        
        Any adult who drives or rides a motorcycle, a car, a truck, or any motor vehicle on any public street is knowingly engaging in risky behavior. What’s your point?
      - Axiomlt
        
        If you have to ask…
    - Franklymydearscarlet
      
      its extremely hard to have a law rise to the level of “cruel and unusual punishment” and its doubtful that putting someone in prison for 15 years for KILLING SOMEONE would ever be found unconstitutional. supreme court’s idea of “cruel and unusual”=think stretching racks, public stocks, the iron maiden. not prison time for a serious crime like killing someone.
      - Drsteevo
        
        You obviously missed the recent SCOTUS ruling regarding mandatory life sentences for children convicted of murder. They overturned it based on Cruel and Unusual punishment protections in the Constitution.
        
        Killing someone in a car accident is not murder.
- Cowboydoc
  
  I agree with Drsteevo that reactionary laws are bad ideas, although I disagree that texting while driving is a technical problem. This is a behavioral problem. Laws that restrict behavior do nothing to solve the problem of inattentive driving (which, by the way, is already a law in most states). Texting may be the hot topic in the media right now, but restricting the ability to text while in a vehicle doesn’t stop them from talking on the phone, adjusting the radio, playing with a Tom-Tom, or putting on their makeup.
  
  Regarding the 15 year punishment of the Utah law, this is just ridiculous. An accident while texting is still an accident and doesn’t mean that any harm was premeditated. To say that someone who kills someone in an accident while texting is any more heinous than someone doing exactly the same thing while adjusting the radio is crazy. Inattentive driving is inattentive driving and the law should reflect this.
Glenn

Your interview brought tears to my eyes. I had to stop washing dishes and listen. How tragic!
When I got my first iPhone, back in 2011, there were no laws here (in Massachusetts) yet. But when I found myself texting, during the first week I owned that phone, I immediately realized how scary and dangerous what I was doing was. I made up some rules for myself right away.
- Glenn
  
  My rules are: If a text comes in while I’m driving, I wait until I stop at a red light before see who it is. And I don’t permit myself to reply to it while at a red light (or while driving, of course) because it’s too tempting to start the car moving if the light turns green, while still finishing a text. If I think it’s that urgent (to reply), I find a place to pull over, bring the car to a complete stop (out of gear, hand brake on) first. And I’ll always text to the other party that I’m in the car, had been driving, and explain that I won’t be able to continue (texting) until my trip is completed or a have another chance to pull over and come to a complete stop.
  I fully understand how tempting it is to keep doing all kinds of distracting things in the car while driving. In today’s information sotted world, plain old driving seems like a relatively dull task. It’s true I’m not a teenager anymore (I’m 61) but I volunteer to work with teens, so I am close in touch with their energy and enthusiasm for connecting with each other using today’s technology.
  The best thing I can think of is to bring my focus down to the task of driving. Some would call it ‘grounding’ my energy, concentrating on a ‘be here now’ attitude, etc. Some might say it should be easier for me at my age, but I differ. After all, by now, driving is not a new experience. I travel very familiar roads. Therefore, it’s very easy to get “bored” with the same old view I’ve seen hundreds of times in the past, and thus easier for my mind to wander, or yearn for something to occupy my thoughts while driving. So I think it’s a challenge for people of any age.
Kmiller2

I applaud this young man for accepting responsibility for his actions and making a valuable effort to change the way folks drive! Good job Reggie.
Frank

Reggie, you are doing a great thing and saving lives. Let your sorrow go, you are well on your way to making up for any mistakes in your past, surely you are unique in your sense of responsibility to this issue. You have made me rethink the way I drive and it only took 5 minutes of listening.
http://profiles.google.com/rickevans033050 Rick Evans

Just yesterday I watched a dopey teen texting while cycling opposite the traffic flow. If he swerved into my path and I hit him with my car guess who would be at fault.
Lbdanzig

I just got off the phone with the state house to encourage tougher laws in mass. in regards to texting while driving. I am very inspired by Reggie Shaws plight. I wish him strength, endurance and peace. I pray for safety for all of us who travel the roadways. Thank you for presenting this topic.
guest

Reggie, I have never posted a comment on this or ANY website…I’m not even on Facebook. However, I am extremely touched by your story and feel compelled to comment. If everyone took responsibility for their actions the way you have done over the past 6 years the world would be a much better place. I myself rarely text while driving but after hearing you speak I will never do so again. Thank you for your dedication in bringing your message to so many. You have stopped 1 more person from texting while driving.
Dbaesl

I just listened to his story and was very moved. I just wanted to say that what he is doing now is a GREAT thing. I know it won’t make it easier for him or the families, but it is still important for him to tell his story. I hope he realizes that he is not a bad person and what happen was an accident. I hope that one day he finds peace. God Bless
Amaralee

You’re interview was truly saddening, I’m sixteen and just got my permit, I’m always seeing collage kids texting on the road, and it put a huge fear in me when it came to driving. I could of obtained my license months ago but I was too afraid of what would happen if I couldn’t react quickly, and the fear is still very real for me today because I have three little sisters and both my parents, and I have to drive with at least one of them with me, on the same road with hundreds of colleg kids having their eyes glued to the screen. I can’t help but think of the fears and trouble my own family would have. I want to be sure that no one is texting while driving, so no one haves to live that nightmare, the same one you were speaking about today.
Doug Mealing

I agree with Drsteevo. Knee jerk reaction and too severe for one specific type of distraction. I understand this kid is upset about what he did, but how can he say how his 30 days was “so difficult” yet he wants to punish others with 15 years? He was irresponsible while driving, then lied about it, and now wants to punish other people so they not only suffer with their guilt (as he does), but take years away from their lives. This kid is following up one stupid mistake with another. Focus on educating people about the risks of texting and driving not making other irresponsible kids suffer more than he did. I think his interview should have been harsher personally.
- Brigmacchin
  
  This young man has spent 4 years educating people talking in high schools all over the state of utah at his own expense. The law was written up after he talked at the state legislature he did not make the law. As far as lying have you ever been in a tramatic situation? Sometimes we blocked these things from our mind.
Doug Hein

Wonderful interview, Robin. It takes a remarkable person to face the consequences of his actions as Reggie is doing. I like idea of a technical solution to this problem rather than trying to change people’s behaviors, a seemingly impossible task in terms of passing punitive laws and depending on a flawed legal system to implement them. I see people ignore laws big and small each day despite the dangerand/or legal implications. In the meantime, continue your mission, Reggie. It made a difference for me to hear your story.
Drsteevo

More thoughts on technical solutions to texting and driving. This is a technological problem, it was created by new technology, and it won’t be solved by politicians.

Here is how to stop texting and driving:

#1 – Going forward, texting will be disabled in all phones without location functions (either cell tower, network, or GPS)

#2 – If you turn off location on your phone, then the texting is automatically disabled

#3 – If your phone determines you are moving, then texting is disabled. You could determine a speed limit for this, anything faster than 20mph or so could disable the texting function.

#4 – optional: make some sort of automatic reply when the texting is disabled, bounce a message back to the sender saying something like “The person you texted is in moving vehicle, please call them if you need to communicate”

#5 – optional: have some sort of function that could determine if the person is a passenger in the vehicle or is on a train or something like that (perhaps holding two buttons on the phone while sending the text or something) — this would require more thought

I am just one person and I have only spent a little time and energy thinking about this problem. I emailed a few phone companies several months ago, but never heard back. I think my solution would work.
- Thinkaboutit
  
  That doesn’t work. That means that passengers won’t be able to text. This is not the solution.
arussellp

In addition to passing laws, we should lobby the cell phone providers to add a one-button “Driving” mode option to all phones that the driver could voluntary enable before starting the car. The feature would disable text alert sounds and send an auto-reply to the people who send texts to the driver that says something as simple as “I’m driving. I will read your text after I reach my destination.” Those who fear alienating their friends by not responding immediately to texts will have explained their temporary silence to their friends without threatening the lives of others on the road. Those who’ve texted without knowing their recipient is driving will be relieved to know they haven’t inadvertently distracted the driver with their text.
Karen

If Reggie feels so strongly that 15 years is fair, shouldn’t he be volunteering to put himself away for the duration minus the time already spent? And since he killed two men, perhaps the time is 30 years, minus the time already spent. I believe one can only advocate such harsh punishment if they are willing to endure it. If they feel it is righteous, then they should abide by their own rules to be righteous. Shame on Reggie. I feel for his pain, but if he feels this is fair for others, than it is fair for him. My thoughts go to the families of the men he killed.
Cathi

What a wonderful world it would be if everyone held themselves accountable for their mistakes as this young man has. Listening to his story was heart wrenching and profoundly moving for the families that were tragically affected and for Reggie and his family. �
I hope for mended hearts for everyone who was affected by this tragic accident. What Reggie is doing to make amends and atone is very commendable and gives me hope for humanity.
- Drsteevo
  
  If everyone who was convicted of a crime advocated a sentence 180 times more severe then they received, then the world would not be a good place.
  
  180 times more severe!
  - Drsteevo
    
    first “then” should be “than”
Radish

So this kid kills 2 people, gets 30 days, and now wants to make sure that anyone else who makes the same mistake gets 30 years? He has a pretty warped sense of justice.
Geisler

Is there an app for smart phones that will respond “I’m driving” when the phone is Texted while driving? If not, there should be.
Susan Iseman

Thanks you Reggie for your bravery and honesty. I can’t imagine what you must be feeling like and it struck me when you said you would spend time in prison to bring those 2 people back.�
I am frightened and outraged by the amount of careless distracted driving. I think the Utah laws should be enacted everywhere, so these idiots will “hang up & drive.”
designingdiva

Your program was focusing on teenagers but texting is not limited to teenagers. I have had to preach and preach to my husband that even though he thinks that he is a wonderful driver and capable of driving and texting that texting while driving is a bad idea. I point out every article, every commercial, every anecdote I can to convince him not to that. Sometime older adults are harder to convince than teens. Thanks for this show.
BHA in Vermont

I am on the “applaud” side. Most people try to hide, find ANY legal loophole to get out of being punished for what they did. This young man not only took responsibility, he is trying his best to stop anyone else from dying at the hands of a texting driver.

The law is not too strict and I wish the DUI laws were similar. Here you get a $350 fine for first DUI. I consider it no different than firing a gun randomly. Any moving vehicle is a lethal weapon that must be handled with the utmost care which is not possible when the driver is impaired. Why a slap on the hand? Make the penalty severe enough and even those who think they won’t get caught will stop and think, more than twice, about doing something stupid behind the wheel.
- Cowboydoc
  
  I do applaud Reggie but I don’t agree that more severe punishments make for less infractions. You mentioned DUI… but statistics show that harsher penalties for DUI do not correlate with fewer DUI arrests. What does correlate with fewer arrests is reform programs like DUI court, and public interest campaigns such as the “We Don’t Serve Teens” (CenturyCouncil.org).
  
  The fact is that people screw up, and they should be punished to deter others from making the same mistakes, but we must also allow those that mess up to get back to their feet. They shouldn’t have their life completely taken away through exorbitant fines or jail sentences for a mistake. Those punishments belong to heinous crimes and repeat offenders, not to first-time accidents.
Mel Green

Robin asked him, “Are you a practicing Mormon?” and followed up by stating “Family is especially important to Mormons, has that made this harder on you?” (having caused the deaths of two people whose families lost them).

Robin: all due respect to the importance of family for members of the LDS Church, but please be informed: I am NOT a Mormon, practicing or otherwise, but family is very important to me. So it is for the majority of humankind that are not practicing Mormons. Neither LDS beliefs, nor beliefs of any other faith group, makes the grief of losing family members, or the remorse from causing other people to lose THEIR family, anything more or less than what it would be for any feeling, humane person.
HangUpandDrive

I think everyone should simply turn off the phone in the car. Whether simply talking or texting all research shows that phone use in cars is ultimately dangerous. Since that probably isn’t realistic, then everyone should take a test like the one in this video to see how well they can respond while texting and driving…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL3dSyTIhRs
RS

Thank you, Reggie for sharing with us and for the work you are doing to help inform and encourage others to not make the same mistake. You are showing a lot of courage, we could use more of this type of courage in our society.

On the harsh penalties of the new law, I would much rather we stop thinking that prison is the best answer. Find other ways, like the work that Reggie does by telling his story, to change the culture and people’s choices.
LeaG

Like other listeners who have written comments about Reggie Shaw’s story, I too was moved to tears by his suffering and shared his story with my three boys, to of whom have just entered teenagerdom. What I would like for Reggie to understand is that his effort to reach out and educate young (and middle-aged) people is much more effective and powerful than any law. Reggie’s story touches people’s hearts. What a loss it would be for him to be imprisoned somewhere in Utah, forgotten by all but his parents and the people whose lives the accident changed.
Johnbon

I am glad everyone thinks 15 years is too harsh. I mean two guys died because this moron did not keep his eyes on the road. Why dont we let people watch tv while they drive? 30 days in jail for killing two people? Really?
TIM

I killed two people so i am pushing for a tuffer law….Are you going back to prison when it passes or are you ok with other people getting more jail time then you got? Kind of stupid if you think about it. He is pushing for more jail time for other people after he walks out after 30 days.
Jennymargalit

I felt extremely fortunate to have listened to this report today. Although I know how dangerous distracted driving is, in such a busy life where we are driving all the time, it is absolutely pertient to have reminders like this as to serious the issue is. This report will truly help me put away my phone completely when driving so I never risk hurting myself or anyone else. Thank you, Reggie.
http://www.everyonetexts.com/ Stevenmeister

There are products like textsmart-drivesafe that stop texting and
phone use at 1mph and it’s free but not many seem to care enough to use
it – it’s on itunes and google android – people won’t volunteer to do
what is safe and legal – its ashame

Steve
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=502512561 Krae Stumpf

A correction needs to be made regarding a caller who stated that missionary service was a “requirement” within the LDS Church and that one must serve a mission in order to make it to the highest tier of Heaven. This is incorrect. Although missionary service is expected of able 19-25 year old single males and encouraged for single female members and senior couples, it is not a requirement for either worthy membership nor as a qualification to enter any level of Heaven. There certainly is some family disappointment if a young man decides not to serve, and maybe some gossip as to the reason why, but there is no eternal punishment. According to LDS belief, ALL of God’s children, whether Mormon in this life or not, have equal opportunity to enter into His presence, through His grace and the love and sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ.
- Calgalb
  
  thank you! I was just signing on to correct that statement as well. Hopefully plenty of people will read your comment and not think the caller was correct. As is typical with any large religion, there is sometimes a big disconnect of what is actually a part of the teachings and what becomes tradition.
- Epinegar1
  
  I hope there is a huge outcry over this! Yes, the clarification offered by the caller needs correction. I’ve NEVER heard missionary work referred to as a requirement for our young men; and the suggestion that it is a requirement for entry to any level of heaven is preposterous! It makes me wonder what the NPR vetting process is in order for a caller to be considered qualified to speak on the doctrinal issues of a major worldwide religion…surely it must be more rigorous than just someone saying they’re a Mormon.
- sprmich
  
  I am glad other LDS church members were listening too! I was horrified to hear the caller state that we ‘require’ missions, and that going to highest degree of heaven is contingent on a mission. I love ‘Here and Now’ and Ms. Young’s handling of the story, but I wish she had checked with an official church source before playing the phone conversation.
smith

You got some wrong information. Members of the Church of Latterday Saints do not have to serve a mission to reach the highest degree of glory. Many good members have not served missions but this degree of glory (we call it the celestial kingdom) is still open to them. Everything is NOT contingent upon serving a mission.
2HF419

Today, in an update to last week’s story on Reggie Shaw killing two men while texting, you interviewed a woman on the phone who claimed to be a mormon. I was shocked to actually hear someone who considers herself an expert on LDS doctrine, explain that the reason Reggie was so upset not to have been able to finish his mission was because mormons believe you can’t get into heaven unless you’ve served a mission. This woman doesn’t know the basic fundamentals of the mormon faith. She was wrong. Maybe knowingly. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the full and correct name of the “mormon church”) know that as the November elections draw closer, the deliberate spread of lies and misinformation will grow because Mitt Romney is a mormon. Don’t believe half of what you hear….just ask a mormon who knows their religion what the truth is. As far as your show, Robin, I would have expected a professional to authenticate their “expert”. HIGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL. KPBS claims to offer news that offers CLEAR analysis. That would suggest UNBIASED and INFORMED to me. This woman’s “analysis” and explanation did nothing but add to all the confusion and misunderstanding surrounding the church’s real beliefs. I’m very disappointed. I guess my policy on KPBS should be much like I’ve suggested to the general public about mormon doctrine: Don’t believe half of what you hear????
Cori Goaslind

I heard about this story today on NPR in a listener comment interview regarding the Mormon views on serving as a missionary. The caller, who it was said was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, stated that because of this young man’s inability to serve as a mission as a result of his conviction, he no longer had the chance to go to the highest degree of heaven. I am myself a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I also served a mission as a young woman. I have taught a daily seminary class to teenagers in the past and have taught various Sunday School classes over the years and consider this statement to be absolutely erroneous. I was extremely disappointed that a news source I have hitherto held in rather high regard would report such an inaccuracy as though it were fact without checking with more than one seemingly random and misguided person. Missions are indeed encouraged for young people, young men especially, but it is in no way considered a requirement to enter into heaven.
Matthew Meanea

I want to add my concern to those already expressed regarding the person interviewed by phone as a follow up to this story. I’m not sure how or why the decision was made to present her comments as fact, but I am highly disappointed in your program. What would justify presenting the caller’s comments as representative of official church doctrine? Only if she had such authority granted to her to speak for and in behalf of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I would rank this breach in journalistic integrity right up there with the Mike Daisey/This American Life fiasco. At least Ira had the integrity of running an entire show as a retraction. How your program addresses this issue will speak volumes to either its integrity as a news program, or its questionable validity as a tabloid radio show. Do the right thing!

Also, for future reference, goto http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ for contacts with official spokespersons for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And please use the entire legal name of the church in your reports, not just “Church of Latter-day Saints”. Thank you.

-Matt Meanea
inlovewithlife

Reggie, Thank you for sharing your story. No, nothing can bring back the fathers that died, but you are on a healing path. Be gentle to yourself; you will forgive yourself some day…it will come. Again, thank you for sharing your story….it has made a difference in my life.
homebuilding

Many times there is simply a judgment deficit.

Would this guy adjust his radio or wipers whilst making a left turn across oncoming traffic?

Does he ask himself if any particular time (in driving) is a ZERO DISTRACTION of any kind moment?

Sadly, far too many lack this most basic skill.
J__o__h__n

The point of this story is the dangers of texting while driving and not whether some myths were reported incorectly.
jay

Jay
its sad many people have to pass out harsh and stricted laws for young and old driver to realize that someone can serious hurt or even killed,and that will be someone anyone one would wish they could take back!!!