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Economist Joseph Stiglitz: ‘U.S. No Longer Land Of Opportunity’

Economist Joseph Stiglitz, at Here & Now studios at WBUR in Boston. (Jesse Costa/ Here & Now)

Nobel Prize winning Economist Joseph Stiglitz argues in his new book that the Horatio Alger rags-to riches story is no longer a reality for Americans.

“The chances of someone making his way from the bottom to the top are less than those of citizens in other industrialized countries,” he writes.

This is not an accident according to Stiglitz. In “The Price Of Inequality: How Today’s Divided Society Endangers Our Future,” he says that the system has been rigged, and is now working overtime to move money from the middle class and the poor to the rich.

He says that banks like the IMF and the Fed have been captured by the rich, and they are promoting policies that favor the wealthy, at the expense of real growth.

Over the last 30 years, the bottom 90 percent have seen their wages grow by about 15 percent, while those in the top 1 percent have seen incomes grow by 10 to 20 times that, according to Stiglitz.

Stiglitz says unless we do something about the growing inequity, we’ll end up harming everyone — including the richest.

Guest:


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  • George

         Not only has it gotten much harder for most people to
    climb from the bottom rungs of our society to the top, but I now predict the complete
    extinction of the ubiquitous “independent American inventor”, within one to two decades, since recent changes to patent law will put the final nails in THAT coffin as well.     What used to be a huge driver of economic expansion in this
    country (independent innovation and invention), from about the 1850s to the 1950s, will finally be extinguished by the
    changes to patent law that are now taking place (something that Mr. Stiglitz
    might like to explore in greater detail at some point in time, since it could
    be something quite significant with far-reaching economic consequences).
         It is already much
    too expensive for young people to try and protect their intellectual and
    creative works, so I think many of them are just deciding not to even bother
    trying to be creative, or inventive, anymore. Older inventors have also become
    so disillusioned by a system so heavily stacked against them, that most of them
    just give up after a few attempts to succeed. There is, also, little or no
    financial support for independent inventors in this country (either from
    government, or private backers) and despite the widespread public misconception,
    venture capitalists do not invest in start-ups, or unproven new technologies and
    inventions.
         It is clear that it will soon become impossible for any
    independent inventor or small company to take on the big multinational
    corporations and win. Also, since “corporate inventors” have NEVER
    been financially rewarded for their contributions (in proportion to corporate
    profits), there is little incentive for employees of these corporations to
    innovate. It’s still only executives at companies that get rewarded for
    innovations, not the “lowly innovators” themselves. That is why
    “corporate innovation” (with the exception maybe of Apple) will
    remain almost an oxymoron.

         The new changes to patent law (which most people no nothing
    about) will also make it easy for others to steal inventions from smaller companies
    and individuals, through espionage and cyber attacks, since the first to file a
    patent will now win rights over the first to actually invent something -
    regardless of any other evidence to the contrary (short of direct proof of
    theft that could stand up in court).

         America used to have the best system in the world for
    protecting creative innovations. This gave rise to the greatest century of
    economic expansion in history (from 1850 – 1950). But now this system will be
    transformed into a “European system” of doing things (where individual
    thought doesn’t count as much and corporations and governments rule).

    So, how many European inventors
    do people know? How many Apple Computers, Facebooks, Googles, HPs, Ebays, Amazons, Teslas, Space-X, etc.,  originate out of Europe?

    • Pointpanic

      Oh come on ,George this is nothing but a self-serving corporate fairytale. Corporation are hijacking democracy in pursuit of profit. I envy Europe not having to deal with the compnaies you mention. They onl;y see us as mere consumers not citizens who must make informed decisions. Plus as I wrote above,Noam Chomsky dispels the fairytale of innovation emerging from venture captialism.

      • George

         I also dispel the myth that venture capital does NOT help innovators (read again).  While I like some of the egalitarian aspects of Europe (of the past), I know for a fact that their system does not encourage innovation on the part of individuals and that they have historically not been the leaders of innovation (though they are not complete slackers either).  European patent law makes it impossible for innovators to keep their work secret for any length of time.  It greatly increases the costs for obtaining protection on new technologies.

        • George

           Meant to say that venture capital does NOT help inventors and innovators unless they are already making money.

        • Pointpanic

          well, okay I did miss that.,thank you. However Noam CHomsky’s chapter documnets how much innovation camemfrom government ,not Independent innovators of the private sector.

          • George

            I agree with Noam Chomsky as well, however technologies that develop from government funded work and universities is very expensive compared to most “outside developed” technology (will stay away from calling it the “private sector”, since it could be  just be one person working alone in a garage somewhere).  It’s not unusual for a (65-70 year old) academic to get $1M  grant to research something that likely will never be able to be commercialized (though that might be OK sometimes and helps to give graduate students at least  some “crumbs”).  However the SBIR program which is aimed at helping R&D in the “private sector” rarely gives out more than $100K and this is for rese4arch in very limited areas (usually defense related) and usually for only 6-12 months (hard to have a success and breakthrough in 6 months).

            The paltry number of SBIR awards (really just window dressing) and the ridiculously low funding for this program, compared to university funding, is absolutely embarrasing (probably less than 1%).  But to add injury to insult, when a university develops a breakthrough new drug, or develops a new vaccine, they hand over all their – publicly funded research – to a private pharmaceutical company which then makes  billions of dollars marketing it (with little being added in the way of additional research). Also, universities are notorious for failing to be able to successfully license and/or commercialize technologies they patent (seems professors would rather do other things than worry about making money from their work).  Only about 1-2% of patented university R&D ever gets licensed or commercialized! So, this clearly “featherbedded” work, costs taxpayers BILLIONS each year, while according academics job security (well at least the tenured ones).

            So, just the number of patented inventions or academic papers coming out of the public sector isn’t what really counts (especially now) – it’s the number of new technologies and medicines that actually make it to market that counts and the ones that can create new jobs for people (not just professors).  This is what creates new jobs, not university tenure, academic papers, and more students (who wont’ be able to find work).  Knowledge is important but it doesn’t put bread on the table for most people (excluding doctors, lawyers and maybe more professors).  Technologies which aren’t developed by the U.S. are just technologies free for the taking by others (at our expense).  Does China really need the extra help?

            I believe there are as many as 50,000 people in the U.S. that with $50-100K could do some amazing things (they don’t need $1M) and you won’t find most of these people in universities, or working for the government. Do we really believe that a multi-billion dollar laser fusion reactor is going to get us a lot closer to nuclear fusion? Do we really need more Solyndra’s to innovate and develop new technologies in this country? I don’t think so (and I’m a left wing liberal who believes in basic science).

            Sorry for length of response but you brought up Chomsky :-)

    • Sam Walworth

      How about Arcelor Mittal, Adidas, SAAB, BASF, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, VolksWagen, British Telecom, SAP, Novartis Pharama etc etc etc

  • Clarathomas111

    America continues to worsen as a “dog eat dog” culture. Two legged rats scurrying around in search of POWER, POSITION and PELF in this society.

    As the old Indian saying goes:  On the road to success, may you not run into a friend.

    • Guest

       You mean “run over” a friend.

  • Marc Prufer

    How do you get people to stop voting against their own best economic interests?

    • Sark

       I would recommend that you take a look at BradBlog, VoteScam and BlackBoxVoting.

    • Mike

      I wonder if Americans are so optimistic that each of us believes that someday I’ll be one of the wealthy ones.  So why would I vote against the wealthy class, since, someday, I’m gonna be one of them.

      • Pointpanic

        I hope . people aren’t that naive or selfish that they would be willing to be “one of the wealthy ones” at others’ expense.

        • Mike

          I don’t think most people are malicious about becoming wealthy at others’ expense.  Maybe they are just naive and really think they’re going to win the lottery or something like that.

          • Truth Seeker

             No, most are just selfish bastards!!!

          • guest

            Selfish, and entitled. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

       Marc, Excellent question.  How does one grab the attention of the millions who may not initially be receptive, and then education them in a manner that will retain their interest?

  • Pointpanic

    Unfortunately ,I tuned in late to this segment with Jospeh Stiglitz  whose thesis I largely agree with. However I would take issue with the canard that “perfect” equality would stifle innovation, even within a capitalist economy. For details and documentation, of how much tech. innvoation actuaslly came from the government, I would recommend Chapter 3 of Naom Chomsky’s book “Hopes and Prospects

  • Alison

    When we refinanced a couple of years ago, to get rid of a toxic mortgage, we requested to roll in some credit cards that had recently increased greatly in interest rate. However, instead of being able to choose which credit cards/loans to pay off first with the money we were borrowing, it was revealed to us, literally during the last minutes of the signing, that we HAD to pay off our local bank car loan, at 4.5% interest rate (which we were very happy with and OK with keeping) and keep our Bank of America loan (at a rate of 17.5% interest rate, which we were very anxious to get rid of) first. This was written in to the loan, against our own financial interest, without our choice or say, and illustrated further the power of the large banks vs smaller, local institutions.   Very depressing.

    Re: Marc – I don’t know. Education? As someone from England, I have always been struck by the willingness of many Americans to vote in the interest of the very wealthy, apparently because they prefer to imagine themselves as being part of that small group eventually. There seems to be a lot less pride in being part of the many and hard working here, and quick vilification of everything in the larger groups interest as ‘socialist/communist!!!’  I don’t think people here have any idea what those things mean, most of the time.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/5WBEH6Z4N5GYZCPHZJCXUXRJ7U charliesgirl

      I think you’re completely correct, Alison.  It is so frustrating to see working people in this country vote and work so against their own interest and for the interest of the wealthy.  I remember an interview with Bono of U2 who said in the U.S., we look at the rich guy in the big house and think, “I want to be like him someday”.  In Ireland, they look at the rich guy in the big house and think, “I’m going to get that S.O.B.”  He understood it exactly.

      • Lewis

        That makes me proud to be an American charliesgirl.  I look at a success and have positive thoughts while others only feel hate.  Think about what you posted there.

        • John

          Proud and foolish.

        • Guest

           Proud to be ignorant of how “success” is achieved in America!

        • http://twitter.com/Aine Áine MacDermot

          That’s what the wealthy want you to think, Lewis, but I guarantee that even if you do happen to somehow become wealthy through some fluke of luck, the wealthy will NOT welcome you with open arms into their elite clubs and institutions. You’re being made a fool of and you’re letting them do it to you.

        • Melissa Greenberg

          Lewis, I think you look at money as success and that is not always the case.  That is the problem with my fellow Americans.  I’m not wealthy, but I feel successful to some degree.  I have no illusions though that I will ever be in that top percentile and so I have no reason to vote in favor of candidates that will only help them.  

          As long as people have the “American dream” blinders on, then they will continue to worship the wealthy (because that it is what it is) and dislike themselves for not being wealthy.  They will continue to try to find ways to be like those people they worship while those very people continue to pass policy (whether it be a bank, a credit card or a tax) meant to keep them  where they are on the financial spectrum.

          We can’t all be wealthy.  The American dream is a lie people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

       I highly recommend that everyone watch this video called; The Money Masters. You may want to break in up because it’s long.. but well worth it. I haven’t been able to get it out of my mind. 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs&feature=colike

  • J Frog

    I was hoping for more from the guest.  No real solutions offered…”except maybe tax the rich”.  But the whole Fox thing?….As if there hasn’t always been slanted media?  This time a small portion not slanted his way.  (Read Brinkley’s book on “Cronkite”).  This interview was more a diatribe from the left than anything else.

    • takenoside

      The opinion summary you provide as the interview being “a diatribe from the left…” succinctly answers the question posed above as to why so many Americans vote against their own best economic interests.  It seems like most do not consider issues past whatever “side” (left or right) we’ve been told those issues land on.  There’s a vicious ideological divide that seems to continually grow by feeding itself and appears to take over all logical reason.

      • J Frog

        Perhaps if Mr. Stiglitz had been a little more even handed it might have helped.  For instance, Mr. Stiglitz rightly complains about Pres. Bush making a deal with the drug companies when passing his unpaid-for Medicare drug program..yet he fails to mention a similar deal Pres. Obama made with the drug companies in negotiating his so-called “Affordable Health Care” bill.  Then he sloughs off HUGE CHANGES like Globalization as a cause (and NAFTA during his tenure during Clinton Admin) yet has time to mention Fox News as a “cause” or at least somehow related to the gap in income….I’m still confused how it pertains.  Just my opinion.

        • Laserbabe

          one of the ways fox’s narrative pertains is in that it directly speaks to the people whose wages are being lowered, benefits taken away, retirements hijacked, worker and workplace protections reduced, etc, and is allowed to outright lie, due to murdoch’s buying of new legislation to allow that, (after buying his citizenship, and before buying legislation allowing mega-consolidation of media). Fox is consistently telling them that the very people doing this to them, and writing their own self-favoring tax laws are the “job creators,” despite evidence to the contrary, and that to want a return to the tax polices of 30-40 years ago, that directly allowed for the creation of a robust middle class is “redistribution of wealth,” without ever telling the real truth: that the systematic, demonstrable redistribution of wealth has been upward, and almost wholly into the very top echelons of the wealthiest. It is no accident that these people whose opportunities have tanked still think that “right to work” means “freedom” and that “citizens united” involved more than a handful of citizens. It is no different than Pravda, but rather than drumming in that the bleak reality of the soviet version of  communism (which also funneled the wealth of the nation into the hands of their power elite) was ‘equality,” Fox has positioned the corporate takeover of democracy as “freedom”  and told the audience that cheering for the bankers to get their hands on not just private retirement funds, but social security, too, is being a patriot. 

          • Patrickfedinard

            i am giving this testimony cos l am happy

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                Great Atakpo i thank you very much thank you in 1000000 times.. if not you i would have been losted and wasted thank you.

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          • BESTY

             

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  • Lavada

    “They call it the American “Dream” because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it.”  George Carlin

    Watch George Carlin’s  The American Dream at You Tube. 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q 

    • Ted

      I used to tell people that George Carlin was assassinated for his views as was John Lennon and others who threaten the current STATUS QUO across Amerika.My beliefs have only intensified over the years with the killings of Gary Webb, an investigative news journalist who worte about the connection of the CIA and cocaine running and Milton William Cooper, author of Behold A Pale Horse.In this culture, as Mose Allison the blues singer would say. “Don’t become too well known”.

      • Laurel Kornfeld

        I’m a writer who has been proudly threatening the status quo since I was a preteen, and there is no way in hell I will ever stop. Even if what you say is true, there are a lot of progressive writers, and through the Internet, we can gain influence never before possible. Writers who support Occupy should put everything into becoming well known and getting our writings and ideas out there. They can’t kill all of us. We shall not be moved.

  • Ted

    I’d rather read the news from Bill Bonner or Peter Schiff than this guy. He’s a light weight.
    Even the late Bob Chapman of The International Forecaster tells the news unfiltered, unsanitized and uncensored.

    Enough of Joe Stiglitz and the window dressing.
     

    • Pointpanic

      what are you talking about? Stiglitz is no light weight but a seasoned economist who is offering a rational assessment of the economic polices ,generating inequality in our society., to the detriment of our democracy including the one percent whom I don’t care about, but in teh long run, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

  • Anna

    Even if “poor” students get into competitive, need-based financial aid schools, they are still at a disadvantage.   Students with richer parents can do internships where they’re not paid, they can take summers to travel and build their resume, while the poorer students cannot afford to take a term off of working.

  • Mike

    You don’t get rich by working for a living.   You get rich by making someone else work for your living.   This has been going on since the beginning of human society.  You transfer wealth from everyone to a few, either by law or by force.
     

    • Gramela

       Mike you are quite right – and now wealth is transferred by force of law.

      • Guest

         No it isn’t!!! Transferring 25-30% of a wealthy persons income for the public good, still leaves them wealthy! Besides when you compound 70% of a LOT of money it still gets huge pretty fast. How much can a rich person spend anyway? If they give half of it away to charity, then they will also pay less in taxes. People make other people rich, rich people don’t excrete wealth, do they? Even with a 30% tax rate you could still have lots of billionaires created (might just take them 5-6 more years to get there).

  • http://lowenfoundation.org/index.html FLowen

    Wow! Professor Stiglitz!   You have stated our dark dilemma more accurately than I have heard yet! You have my most sincere congratulations and appreciation!

    I believe the solution is simple: to require commercial interests to finance public interest lobbying groups dollar for dollar in ALL lobbying efforts aimed at government: federal, state, and local. Most simply done with a 100% Lobby Tax on groups that lobby government for special considerations.

    This has many benefits: no cost to taxpayer; introducing an opposing argument will deepen the understanding of the “problem”/commercial benefit; it will reduce the influence of the commercial free hand as currently perpetuates the powers-that-be who benefit from the Status Quo grid-lock and induced confusion.

    I believe this is even more important than reversing Citizen’s United!…which is a close second!

    You are a breath of fresh air…on the level of the emergence of the Occupy movement, and the Simpson-Bowles report. Please, keep speaking, and may god bless you!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

       Flowen; with all due respect, I don’t like Simpson-Bowles report. They advocate curtailing the public’s safety nets.. I don’t see that as beneficial to society or our economy particularly during a recession.

  • https://openid.org/oregon_stream Oregon_Stream

    To me, the problem isn’t inequality per sé (I agree it will always exist), but the rapid ‘growth’ of inequality, and the policies that contribute to it. As well as the inequity that stems from concentrated political influence and corruption.

    The average family has LOST ground with respect to net worth/financial security, and the discretionary income that drives much of the economy. Meanwhile, the top ~5% have benefited disproportionately from tax policy (and the loopholes therein) that tends to favor relatively passive accumulation. And some multi-national corporations are doing okay. At least for now, they can tighten the purse strings and rely more on Asia, where government spending and even a modest percentage of people gaining wealth can mean profit growth.

    I don’t support anything draconian that would dampen the initiative of those who earn financial resources, but I do think it’s time to get back to a more graduated tax system. One based on ability to pay. That was a tenet of most economic systems in the 20th century, and the fact that people would be taxed 40-50% on any NET earnings over ~$380K didn’t typically mean they would stop trying to be successful in business, or hire people if the demand was there.

  • Lewis

    Oh my, I don’t think I have ever heard an NPR host sound so gitty while interviewing someone, well ok yes I have.  But she didn’t press him on why he held those views at all.  This guy is a joke, you really want me to believe the way to more jobs is cap and trade…  That is laughable at best.  I’m sure the first thing that company’s are going to do when their tax bill goes up is say “we need to hire more people!”  You kool-aid drinkers on the left and right can argue whether our progressive tax needs to be tweaked up or down all day long, but  in the next election cycle loop holes will be added by both sides, for a ‘green’ company or a text book manufacturer and we will end up the same place we started.  Flat tax, or sales tax is the only way to go, every country or state that implements them has brought in more revenue.  Course the left wants to take from people more than they want revenue so they would never go for that.  And the right is to dumb to re frame the argument to point out that would actually guarantee the rich pay more than us.  Would be nice if everyone voted on everyone’s best economic interest and not as a punishment to those who have more, or believe a candidate will ‘give’ them something for their support.

    • Chrisb7

      Equality in the US is in direct proportion to wealth. As Mr Clinton might say it’s the system stupid. Try taking a court case pro se against a bank and you will quickly find that justice in the US is also directly proportional to wealth.

      An economy is a group of people interacting, each member is or should be equally important, but for some crazy reason most Americans are so high on capitalism cool aid that they are deranged economically and politically.

      • Lewis

        My point is that you wont crate equality with a progressive tax rate, because they never are ‘progressive’.  Most proponents of the progressive tax rate are more interested in punishing rather than equalizing.  Nor would you do it with cap and trade.  Education (financial in particular), infrastructure, and simple tax codes are more effective equalizers than  wealth redistribution. 

        • Guest

           How come we had a LOT more equality of opportunity 40 years ago, when taxes on the rich were a lot higher and capital gains were taxed a lot higher? How come we had 3-4% unemployment, even with lots of immigrants coming in?

          • Laserbabe

            don’t confuse them with facts…and definitely don’t mention how well it all worked in the Eisenhower years. I have mostly the same views as he did, and am called at least a socialist, often a communist, and you can bet they’d call me a kenyan if i weren’t a green-eyed lily-white blonde. heheheh

  • Fredrik Persson

    In the end there´s talk about a poll that showed that most people would choose Swedens´s ecnomy if they could. Where can I find that survey? 

    • hitesh

      Hello Fredrik — hitesh here, one of the producers.  That was a widely-cited study by Michael Norton and Dan Ariely.  Here’s a link to the paper:
      http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/norton%20ariely%20in%20press.pdf
      And this is an op-ed piece they wrote based on the study:
      http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/08/opinion/la-oe-norton-wealth-inequality-20101108

      Love how carefully you are listening — Thank You, h
       

      • Fredrik Persson

         Thanks a lot!
        I thought it was interesting since I live in Sweden

        Speaking of  inequality, it´s increasing now in Sweden and has grown more than anywhere else, according to the last report on inequality from OECD. Since 2006 Sweden is run by a administration to the right and it shows: lowered taxes for the rich; lowered pay for unemployment and sick leave; increasing number of charter schools run by venture capital firms that use tax loop holes to funnel money to tax havens and more privatized health care. A lot of people feel that the well fare state is beeing dismantled by the Moderate party. The next election will be held in 2014, and right now the Socialdemocratic party is ahead in the polls and leads with 10 percentage points. We´ll see what happens.

        • Guest

           Good luck, just wish you allowed Americans to immigrate there! I’d be on the first plane out.

          • Miss M

             Agree with you there! I was looking into moving to Sweden, and it’s nearly impossible, unless you’re a genius…or rich :(. I wonder which country is my next best bet.

          • Fredrik Persson

            I have friends in the U.S. who say the same thing – they want to move out.  My mom is originally from California and I have lived there and usually visit once a year; and it´s tragic to see the diminishing hopes people have. In my opinion the core problem is not the economy, it´s all about democracy. The democracy in the U.S. has become more of a Potemkin village than a function for influence by its citizens. The average citizens has in reality no say in which direction the country should take; big business has pretty much  kidnapped the democracy in the U.S. and the consequence of that is a flawed economy that is focused on what is best for business and not what is good for the society as a whole.

  • manjeetchaturve

    The urgency of doing something against corporate greed is the motto of occupy movement. No rich people would let go easily what favors they received and what controls they could exercise over the banking and financial institutions. But Professor Stiglitz has rightly pointed out that all this has so far proved to not only damaging to the 90% but at the end of the day has proven to be detrimental to the 1% as well. If people are unemployed, homeless how could they pay for products ans services?

  • George

    “Truth is a stubborn thing ” … Hopefully it will win out in the end!

    Good job presenting THE FACTS, Dr.  Stiglitz.

  • Mike Lindsey

    You mean, Mr. Stiglitz your now just finding this out?

    • Laserbabe

      no, it takes a little while to write and publish a book. just rude. 

  • Truth Seeker

    Shun Facebook – post your comments directly here! They are going to sell you out.

  • Patdines

    Yes, Mr. Stiglitz is absolutely right, and you do not have to be an economist (although I am) to figure out why he is correct.  It’s very simple math based on tax brackets, disposable income, and investment opportunities. Here’s how it works.

    Imagine 3 pies: poor people’s pie, middle class people’s pie, and rich people’s pie.  

    The poor people have no wealth. They eat (literally) what they earn. They don’t pay income taxes, but their tax rate is very high as a percentage of their income because they pay taxes on consumption: gasoline taxes, sales taxes, cell phone taxes, property taxes, car registration taxes, etc. They consume everything they earn so they have no disposable income to invest, except maybe in property…but that’s been a loser over the last 20 years. They are toast.

    The middle pie has greater income but they pay income taxes. They are like poor people but with an additional income tax of up to 35%. Their investments have been in their house, but unfortunately, because of the manipulations of the rich, their investments in their houses have soured…back to early 1990′s prices. So, their net worth has dropped dramatically,  and they have no disposable income to invest in stocks, bonds, and foreclosed real estate, so they too are toast. But, they don’t know it yet, although they are now living from pay check to paycheck.

    The rich have it made. If they are smart and well advised, they will pay 15-20 percent income taxes, which gives them plenty of disposable income to invest in the poor and middle classes misfortunes (real estate), bonds, stock, etc. Do the math. These investments, over the long run,  have a 14% ROI. Since they consume only a small percent of their income (you can only eat so many cheeseburgers), their return on investing what remains of their disposable income is enormous. They are the true winners.

    In the Great Gatsby by Scott Fitzgerald, I remember this great quote. “The only difference between rich people and poor people is that rich people have more money.”  Although that is true philosophically,  it’s no longer true in the post industrial age.  We need money to eat, to educate our children, and to stay alive. Poor and middle class people are losing these opportunities, and as Mr. Stigwitz said, this will eventually also hurt rich people. Here’s why.

    As Obama said to get elected, we are not two America’s, the red and the blue. We are just one America. This division of the poor, middle class and rich is an oversimplification. We are just one people. I believe that’s what Fitzgerald meant.  However, with a tax code that makes it so easy for the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor and the middle class, we are doing all Americans a disfavor.  Just imagine what this beautiful country will look like if the rich have to live behind high concrete walls topped with razor wire? We will have become a banana republic, no different than our southern neighbors where there are only rich and poor people and where a trip to go shopping is in armored plated Suburbans with bodyguards. Is this the America we want?

    This coming election will be the final nail in our economic coffin. If Mitt Romney wins, we are all toast; the poor, the middle class, and the rich. The only difference will be timing.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/HZMNINTMTF2CHAVDZGE6WYXCEA Edward

      Pat,
      You have obviously drank Obama’s cool aid. Pity. 

      • Laserbabe

        and you have not given that post any thought at all or you would see that it is all true, whether or not you prefer obama or mitt. 

      • Kriggens

         If that is truly the case, refute the points made. Otherwise, you show yourself to be “kool-aid” drinker of the other camp.

      • Neilselbyarmstrong

         Shame that not only are you “foolish or misguided” but illiterate with it PITY.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

        Admit it. You did’t really understand what Laserbabe said, did you!?

    • http://www.facebook.com/glovelace1 George Lovelace

       Thank you, Pat. You stated that so clearly that even the densest among us can understand the logic.  Well, maybe with the exception of those drinking the Koch-a-cola.

    • white_lab_rat

      I agree with pretty much all of what you say, however there is an aspect of this that you have not considered: Globalization. Before this the nation state was the primary economic boundary. This is no longer the case. I can go into how we got to this place but I am pretty sure you grasp that part quite well. =)

      Currently the wealthy are transferring huge amounts of capital out of  the US to places like China. You produce goods cheaply there and sell them for much more money in the US and Europe.  The large profits that are made this way are sewn back into the production base and not into the economy that buys the products. Basically you can use a strong economy to finance the rise of a weaker economy that has a better long term potential. Add in the fact that the US dollar trades well (or at least it did) against, say, Chinese currency. So now you are getting double duty from your money by cutting production cost and you can reinvest much more cheaply. From a purely capitalist way of thinking this can be nothing but good. Capital creation is the final goal of capitalism really. Making money is how you measure success.

      The wealthy intend to be a part of the new Chinese economy they are in the process of creating. They have little or no intention of remaining here at all. Thanks  to deregulation and globalization they don’t have to live or work in the countries they drain of capital. In the end China’s economy is potentially much stronger than the US economy can ever be due simply to the sheer volume of people who want TV’s and cars there. The goal over the last few decades has been to drain the US of money and drive us as far into debt as is possible so you can take all that money to a better place. Use the stronger currency build up an economy and kick start a middle class in China. They will now leave behind the poor and the formerly middle class. The time has come to foreclose on America once and for all. Collect the debt you can, liquidate as much of the remaining assets as you can (sell off schools and bridges, raid social security, etc.) and let the rest collapse. Ironically Romney’s business back ground may be exactly the skill set a certain branch of the neoconservatives are looking for in a president.

      It’s not personal, it is just business. The fastest way to making money is to use a strong economy to build up a weaker one. In the thinking of the global business community the US economy is just not competitive any more. The natural order of things is that you move on to a more competitive economy and invest at an advantage. Then the US economy will reset (collapse) into a state more competitive with the rest of the globe. If China ever becomes too expensive to produce goods in the wealthy investors will start the process over again but the net capital grows each time you use one economy to build another this way. Sure it is hard on the economy being drained but in the end capital is put into the hands of those who can use it best. By best they mean use capital to create more capital. The amount of money you make is after all the only tangible measure of success to a large percentage of the population. The wealthy investors can’t lose and since they won’t be here they won’t suffer the consequences of their actions at all. You are thinking of the Brazil model but they have something much more comfortable in mind like living in Hong Kong or anywhere else in the world at all really, just not here.  

      This is also why austerity measures are being pushed so hard. Traditionally every time you have a recession and private spending goes down, government spending goes up to provide services until the over all economy can level itself. Now though they have the perfect situation: they drained private savings of all the money available with bad loans on over priced real estate. When that collapsed they got the government to provide an unregulated bail out which banks promptly spent investing over seas or just pocketed rather than doing anything useful with it here in the US. So now the people are in debt for pretty close to their net worth (average debt is close to 60k per american and average worth is about 77k) and the government is so burdened with debt it can’t even help out. Now you bring in the austerity measures, make the Greeks and eventually every one else pay off huge bailouts for massive debts. They sell off everything from ports to government land to services like gas and electricity. Even monuments like the Parthenon. All that money goes back to the banks who ultimately are responsible for the crisis to begin with. Heck a lot of economists don’t think it is even possible for Greece to pay off their debts at all, austerity or not. But that does not matter it is just another way to get them to pay just a little more. Every one pays 2 or 3 times and the already wealthy get all the money. That is how you liquidate a country and walk away with a pocket full of money.  You can refuse to pay like Iceland did but so far they are the only ones trying that route and they are so insignificant the bank’s don’t much care.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

         Plus… the Trillions of dollars the banks received from the Fed. Reserve on top of the bail out.  The deck is grotesquely stacked against the 98%.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Teri-L-Travis/703689896 Teri L Travis

       Thank you Pat for an amazing synopsis that anybody can understand, and I’d really like to share it with other people who’d greatly benefit from your post.  So many people don’t understand economics and have been easily manipulated by the right-wing.  I wish there were a way for more people to read your post.  Would it be ok if I posted this my facebook page?    Also, I recently finished watching a Youtube video called: “The Money Master”. It’s an incredible video that talks about the history the history, inception of the World Banks and the Federal Reserve, and who’s really controls the world.  Wow.. what an eyeopening experience it was for me. Everyone should see this video. 
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs&feature=colike
                                             
      Thank you;
      Teri.

  • Katta

    The rich will do anything for the poor but get off their backs. 
    Karl Marx 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DNRBKTPMSYP26Y6EO5V33YBDXY Spoq Shok

    What an idiot. I just heard a news story about this guy in Los Angeles that started a computer company, and all these Asians from China are applying to work there. We have a flood of legal immigrants from Asia who come to America to live and work because they can succeed here. Facebook, Apple, Google….what is this guy talking about?

    Throughout history, the wealthy have always stolen from the middle class. Get a good education and you can make it in America.

    • Guest

       That “idiot” won a Nobel prize – have you?

    • Guest

      That’s a Pipe Dream now. Most people graduating college are finding them selves in extreme debt and with limited career options. The reason there are jobs for immigrants is because they will work for cents on the dollars that equivalently skilled American’s will work for. It’s still off shoring, just the workers moved on shore. 

  • Guest

    Here is the true formula for success in America (that
    Silicon Valley and Wall Street don’t want regular people to know):

     

    30% Blind luck and good timing

    30% Good connections (willing to lie along with you)

    30% Hype and spin (with lots of help from the media and
    ‘social networks’)

    10% Actual, “insanely great”, new products that
    can pass the “logic & smell” test.

     

    Welcome to the true American “dream-land” -
    (meritocrasy be damned!)

  • someonespadre

    Well, duh, rich people get rich selling products to middle class people with good jobs.  This mad rush to destroy the middle class is insane; I am not sure what motivates super wealthy people other than some psychopathic need to destroy others?

  • Jodi

    Dr. Abu is totally top notch. I would never trust anyone else with my problems. He is completely reliable and compassionate and his money spells are truly some kind of powerful magic. Dr. Abu has definitely gotten me through some really tough times and the Successful Money Spell resolved all difficulties. I will never have to worry about money ever again. Thank you again. Get to know him via his email address: Ominighospelltemple@gmail.com

  • valdez

     

    i am giving this testimony cos l am happy

    My name is mrs. Santana Valdez  from Houston,taxes.i never believed in love spells or magic until i met this spell caster once. when i went to Africa in May 28TH MAY 2013 this year on a business summit. i ment a man called dr. Atakpo.He is powerful he could help you cast a spells to bring back my love’s gone,misbehaving lover looking for some one to love you, bring back lost money and magic money spell or spell for a good job.i’m now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down cos our relationship has been on for 2 years… i really loved him, but his mother was against me and he had no good paying job. so when i met this spell caster, i told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him..at first i was undecided,skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try. and in 6 days when i returned to taxes, my boyfriend (is now my husband ) he called me by himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with his mom and family and he got a new job interview so we should get married..i didn’t believe it cos the spell caster only asked for my name and my boyfriends name and all i wanted him to do… well we are happily married now and we are expecting our little kid,and my husband also got a new job and our lives became much better. in case anyone needs the spell caster for some help, email address atakpotemble@yahoo.com

    Great Atakpo i thank you very much thank you in 1000000 times.. if not you i would have been losted and wasted thank you. Email Him Through his email address… atakpotemble@yahoo.com

    please make sure you contact him for any financial difficulties okay..

    What a powerful man such as Dr Atakpo.. he is so much powerful..\ email him for any difficulties.. atakpotemble@yahoo.com

     

  • John YiYi

    My name is Mr Frank Silver,I live in Mexico,and I’m happily married with a lovely wife and three children. I had a very big problem with my wife few months ago,to the extent that she even packed her things away from me and my kids for almost 5 months,and i tried all my possible best and effort to bring her back,but all to no avail.I discussed it with a very good friend of mine,and he gave me an advice concerning a spell caster,and i quote.“There’s someone who can handle your situation,he’s always ready and able to do anything related to spell casting,i will like you to contact him with his email,which is as follows.”John Yi Yi Great Oracle Temple Solution”. I never believed in spell casting,but he convinced me and i had no choice than to follow his advice,because i never dreamt of loosing my lovely wife.And that’s how i contacted him with his email address,and i discussed with him and so surprisingly,he told me that I’ll get my wife back a day after.so i never believed,until when i got home,the next day,my wife called me to inform me that she was coming back…..So amazing!! That’s how i got my wife back through spell casting and our relationship was now stronger than how it was before.One of the price i was asked to pay was to tell it to people around me that problems like this,can always be solved by “John Yi Yi Great Oracle Temple Solution”. So! my advice for you out there is to visit this same website,and tell him your problems too,if you are in any condition related to love issue or getting your ex back,to have a happy family.THANKS…. HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS :johnyiyi@rocketmail.com.. CONTACT HIM TODAY VIA THIS EMAIL ADDRESS: johnyiyi@rocketmail.com AS HIS POWERS ARE SO STRONG AND VERY EFFECTIVE AND HAS NO BAD EFFECT INSTEAD IT HAVE A VERY GOOD RESULT AFTER CASTING THE SPELL.

  • shakesspear

    Need a spell caster?then think of Shakes Spear he is real reliable and he does what he promise you.I know all this because he helped with my marriage problem.For security reason i will not live my name here but i can tell you all he did to help me.Me and my family live in the US military base here in America,my wife is a solider and i love it that she is and i support.But being a solider means she is half my wife and fully the U.S army.before her three tour we were so in love and we had a kid son who we both love him.It all changed after her two tour in Iraq and Afghanistan,i noticed the distance her second tour she stopped call at first i thought maybe she was part of an accident but i found out that she was OK in Afghanistan.She explained that she always on patrol.It got ugly on the third. I guess in the last two tours she found herself a new lover and then totally forgetting me and our boy.I can not say i did not notice because she always has to be some where instead of with me,coming up with some silly excuse not to be with me that is ( have sex ) and her entire behavior told me all i needed to know. i did my research and i had a hint that it was her squad lieutenant.I had know evidence so a could not take the matter to any body.It killed me to seeing this happen i was going suicidal.What hurt me the most was she going home knowing that i suspect she infidelity,she kept lying to me over and over again.The power of positive thinking helped me a lot.I thought that maybe i can find in the help on the internet with the people who had being in the same problem with him.I found a lot of ways but nor worked except Shakes Spear spell.At that time five month ago i was so confused that i could do anything to get my wife back so i contacted Shakes Spear with his email address i saw in some comment on the internet at shakesspear23@yahoo.com.I laid down my problem to him and told him the entire story and he even confirmed my hint was right, how he did i do not know but he was right because my wife told me later after the spell was made effective. Shakes Spear cast a spell on them both do not know what he did but it seem he made them both forget they ever crossed path romantically speaking like they never know each other expect there official relationship that is squad leader and solider.I owe my life to John Yi Yi what he did saved my marriage.I can tell you this because i have tried and it worked for me.Your case also have a solution with John Yi Yi contact him with his email shakesspear23@yahoo.com

  • shakesspear

    Shakira Elliot Says

    Am giving this testimony cos am happy

    My name is Shakira Elliot from Houston,taxes.i never believed in love spells or magic until i met this spell caster once. when i went to Africa in June 28th 2013 this year on a business summit. i ment a man called DR SHAKES SPEAR. He is powerful he could help you cast a spells to bring back my love’s gone,misbehaving lover looking for some one to love you, bring back lost money and magic money spell or spell for a good job.i’m now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down cos our relationship has been on for 2 years… i really loved him, but his mother was against me and he had no good paying job. so when i met this spell caster, i told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him..at first i was undecided,skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try. and in 6 days when i returned to taxes, my boyfriend (is now my husband ) he called me by himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with his mom and family and he got a new job interview so we should get married..i didn’t believe it cos the spell caster only asked for my name and my boyfriends name and all i wanted him to do… well we are happily married now and we are expecting our little kid,and my husband also got a new job and our lives became much better. in case anyone needs the spell caster for some help, email address: shakesspear23@yahoo.com

    GREAT SHAKES SPEAR i thank you very much thank you in 1000000 times.. if not you i would have been losted and wasted thank you. Email Him Through his email address… shakesspear23@yahoo.com

    please make sure you contact him for any financial difficulties okay..

    What a powerful man such as DR SHAKES SPEAR.. he is so much powerful..\ email him for any difficulties.. shakesspear23@yahoo.com

  • shakesspear

    My name is Mr GOLD JOHN ,I live in Mexico,and I’m happily married with a lovely wife and three children. I had a very big problem with my wife few months ago,to the extent that she even packed her things away from me and my kids for almost 5 months,and i tried all my possible best and effort to bring her back,but all to no avail.I discussed it with a very good friend of mine,and he gave me an advice concerning a spell caster,and i quote.“There’s someone who can handle your situation,he’s always ready and able to do anything related to spell casting,i will like you to contact him with his email,which is as follows.”John Yi Yi Great Oracle Temple Solution”. I never believed in spell casting,but he convinced me and i had no choice than to follow his advice,because i never dreamt of loosing my lovely wife.And that’s how i contacted him with his email address,and i discussed with him and so surprisingly,he told me that I’ll get my wife back a day after.so i never believed,until when i got home,the next day,my wife called me to inform me that she was coming back…..So amazing!! That’s how i got my wife back through spell casting and our relationship was now stronger than how it was before.One of the price i was asked to pay was to tell it to people around me that problems like this,can always be solved by “Shakes Spear Great Oracle Temple Solution”. So! my advice for you out there is to visit this same website,and tell him your problems too,if you are in any condition related to love issue or getting your ex back,to have a happy family. THANKS…. HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS :shakesspear23@yahoo.com.. CONTACT HIM TODAY VIA THIS EMAIL ADDRESS: shakesspear23@yahoo.com AS HIS POWERS ARE SO STRONG AND VERY EFFECTIVE AND HAS NO BAD EFFECT INSTEAD IT HAVE A VERY GOOD RESULT AFTER CASTING THE SPELL.

  • Shakes Spear

    My Name is Dan Anelos ..I never believed in Love Spells or Magics until I met this special spell caster when i contact this man called shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com Execute some business..He is really powerful..My wife divorce me with no reason for almost 4 years and i tried all i could to have her back cos i really love her so much but all my effort did not work out.. we met at our early age at the college and we both have feelings for each other and we got married happily for 5 years with no kid and she woke up one morning and she told me she’s going on a divorce..i thought it was a joke and when she came back from work she tender to me a divorce letter and she packed all her loads from my house..i ran mad and i tried all i could to have her back but all did not work out..i was lonely for almost 4 years…So when i told the spell caster what happened he said he will help me and he asked for her full name and her picture..i gave him that..At first i was skeptical but i gave it a try cos have tried so many spell casters and there is no solution…so when he finished with the readings,he got back to me that she’s with a man and that man is the reason why she left me…The spell caster said he will help me with a spell that will surely bring her back.but i never believe all this…he told me i will see a positive result within 3 days..3 days later,she called me herself and came to me apologizing and she told me she will come back to me..I cant believe this,it was like a dream cos i never believe this will work out after trying many spell casters and there is no solution..The spell caster is so powerful and after that he helped me with a pregnancy spell and my wife got pregnant a month later..we are now happy been together again and with lovely kid..This spell caster has really changed my life and i will forever thankful to him..he has helped many friends too with similar problem too and they are happy and thankful to him..This man is indeed the most powerful spell caster have ever experienced in life..Am Posting this to the Forum in case there is anyone who has similar problem and still looking for a way out..you can reach him here:shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com… CONTACT THIS GREAT AND POWERFUL SPELL CASTER CALLED SHAKES SPEAR … HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS :shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com… CONTACT HIM NOW AND BE FAST ABOUT IT SO HE CAN ALSO ATTEND TO YOU BECAUSE THE EARLIER YOU CONTACT HIM NOW THE BETTER FOR YOU TO GET QUICK SOLUTION TO ALL YOUR PROBLEMS…

  • Shakes Spear

    MY NAME IS JANICES WALLOCKS FROM HOUSTON,TEXAS.I NEVER BELIEVED IN LOVE SPELLS OR MAGIC UNTIL I MET THIS SPELL CASTER ONCE WHEN I WENT TO AFRICA IN DECEMBER LAST YEAR ON A BUSINESS SUMMIT. HE IS REALLY POWERFUL AND COULD HELP CAST SPELLS TO BRING BACK ONE’S GONE,LOST,MISBEHAVING LOVER LOOKING FOR SOME ONE TO LOVE YOU, BRING BACK LOST MONEY AND MAGIC MONEY SPELL OR SPELL FOR A GOOD JOB.I’M NOW HAPPY & A LIVING TESTIMONY COS THE MAN I HAD WANTED TO MARRY LEFT ME 2 WEEKS BEFORE OUR WEDDING AND MY LIFE WAS UPSIDE DOWN COS OUR RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN ON FOR 2YEARS… I REALLY LOVED HIM, BUT HIS MOTHER WAS AGAINST US AND HE HAD NO GOOD PAYING JOB. SO WHEN I MET THIS SPELL CASTER, I TOLD HIM WHAT HAPPENED AND EXPLAINED THE SITUATION OF THINGS TO HIM..AT FIRST I WAS UNDECIDED,SKEPTICAL AND DOUBTFUL, BUT I JUST GAVE IT A TRY. AND IN 7 DAYS WHEN I RETURNED TO TEXAS, MY BOYFRIEND (NOW HUSBAND) CALLED ME BY HIMSELF AND CAME TO ME APOLOGIZING THAT EVERYTHING HAD BEEN SETTLED WITH HIS MOM AND FAMILY AND HE GOT A NEW JOB INTERVIEW SO WE SHOULD GET MARRIED..I DIDN’T BELIEVE IT COS THE SPELL CASTER ONLY ASKED FOR MY NAME AND MY BOYFRIENDS NAME AND ALL I WANTED HIM TO DO… WELL WE ARE HAPPILY MARRIED NOW AND WE ARE EXPECTING OUR LITTLE KID,AND MY HUSBAND ALSO GOT THE NEW JOB AND OUR LIVES BECAME MUCH BETTER. IN CASE ANYONE NEEDS THE SPELL CASTER FOR SOME HELP, HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS:shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com ……HOPE HE HELPS YOU OUT. HURRY NOW AND CONTACT HIM NOW VIA EMAIL ADDRESS:shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com.

  • Shakes Spear

    My Name is Lee Kima, From United Kingdom. I wish to share my testimonies with the general public about what this man called Dr SHAKES SPEAR has just done for me , this man has just brought back my lost Ex husband to me with his great spell, I was married to this man called Steven we were together for a long time and we loved our self’s but when I was unable to give him a child for 2 years he left me and told me he can’t continue anymore then I was now looking for ways to get him back until a friend of mine told me about this man and gave his contact email: shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com then you won’t believe this when I contacted this man on my problems he prepared this spell cast and bring my lost husband back, and after a month I miss my month and go for a test and the result stated am pregnant am happy today am a mother of a baby girl, thank you once again the great Dr SHAKES SPEAR for what you have done for me, if you are out there passing through any of this problems listed below:

    1) If you want your ex back.

    (2) if you always have bad dreams.

    (3) You want to be promoted in your office.

    (4) You want women/men to run after you.

    (5) If you want a child.

    (6) You want to be rich.

    (7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be

    yours forever.

    (8) If you need financial assistance.

    (9) How you been scammed and you want to recover you lost money.

    (10)Stop Divorce

    Email…shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com

  • Shakes Spear

    Need a spell caster?then think of Shakes Spear he is real reliable and he does what he promise you.I know all this because he helped with my marriage problem.For security reason i will not live my name here but i can tell you all he did to help me.Me and my family live in the US military base here in America,my wife is a solider and i love it that she is and i support.But being a solider means she is half my wife and fully the U.S army.before her three tour we were so in love and we had a kid son who we both love him.It all changed after her two tour in Iraq and Afghanistan,i noticed the distance her second tour she stopped call at first i thought maybe she was part of an accident but i found out that she was OK in Afghanistan.She explained that she always on patrol.It got ugly on the third. I guess in the last two tours she found herself a new lover and then totally forgetting me and our boy.I can not say i did not notice because she always has to be some where instead of with me,coming up with some silly excuse not to be with me that is ( have sex ) and her entire behavior told me all i needed to know. i did my research and i had a hint that it was her squad lieutenant.I had know evidence so a could not take the matter to any body.It killed me to seeing this happen i was going suicidal.What hurt me the most was she going home knowing that i suspect she infidelity,she kept lying to me over and over again.The power of positive thinking helped me a lot.I thought that maybe i can find in the help on the internet with the people who had being in the same problem with him.I found a lot of ways but nor worked except Shakes Spear spell.At that time five month ago i was so confused that i could do anything to get my wife back so i contacted Shakes Spear with his email address i saw in some comment on the internet at shakesspear23@yahoo.com.I laid down my problem to him and told him the entire story and he even confirmed my hint was right, how he did i do not know but he was right because my wife told me later after the spell was made effective. Shakes Spear cast a spell on them both do not know what he did but it seem he made them both forget they ever crossed path romantically speaking like they never know each other expect there official relationship that is squad leader and solider.I owe my life to John Yi Yi what he did saved my marriage.I can tell you this because i have tried and it worked for me.Your case also have a solution with John Yi Yi contact him with his email shakesspear23@yahoo.com OR shakesspear23@gmail.com

  • Anonymous

    My wife who left with my two children last month came back after Mr Robinson buckler@yahoo. com cast a love spell for me, things are going great in my marriage life now. . I’m glad she came back to me after the break up, because I loved her from the bottom of my heart, thanks to Mr Robinson buckler for doing this for me, making me and my lover to leave in peace again, this is the first time I am using the service of a spell caster and even if I was a bit skeptical at first, I highly recommend his service to people who need an extra help. It felt good to have my lover back. i never crossed my arms waiting for her to come on her own

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