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Monday, November 21, 2011

The Tea Partier And The Occupier

A member of the Mid-South Tea Party asks a question during a meeting where two Occupy Memphis members were speaking, Thursday in Bartlett, Tenn. (AP)

There was an unusual meeting last week in Tennessee. A group of tea party activists met with Occupy Wall Street protesters. Yes, there was an occasional clash of opinions, but a real discussion broke out too.

Jim Tomasik is one of the organizers of the Mid-South Tea Party and his group invited members of Occupy Memphis to meet with his group after an online discussion started and Mallory Pope is a university student and member of Occupy Memphis. Here’s what they had to say about the two movements.

On Commonalities Between Tea Partiers And Occupiers

  • Tomasik: “I really do like the point that… the voice of the people is being lost by special interest groups. [But Occupiers are] taking their fight to the wrong place in that they’re going after banks and people on Wall Street when they should be going after the government that allows things to happen.”
  • Pope: There’s some agreement when it comes to “crony capitalism and bank bailouts. They obviously don’t want bank bailouts because that’s just another government expenditure as well as I’ve heard many conservatives… say that’s not letting free markets be free, that is picking winners and losers.”
  • Tomasik:“Absolutely, when you start picking winners and loser you penalize people who do things correctly, who do things right.”

On Tea Party Concerns That The Communist Flag Was Flown By Occupy Protesters

  • Jim Tomasik: The woman who came up with the idea to invite Occupy Memphis people is Lynn Moss. “Her father was killed in Vietnam..We have some memories of people lost… and they were fighting against people waving that same flag.”
  • Mallory Pope: “My husband is a veteran, I’m a military spouse– we’re active duty– so we’re very patriotic. And [the communist flag] is a bit of a conflict within Occupy Memphis. I love the American flag, I’d rather wave that than any other as well. It’s a conflict we’re trying to work on.”


  • Jim Tomasik, organizer of the Mid-South Tea Party
  • Mallory Pope, university student,member of Occupy Memphis

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    Jim statement that the Tea Party is against “big government” but that the OWS should be going after the government for not controlling the problem?  If the banks that are causing the problem, then why isn’t it the right thing to protest them?


  • J Frog

    Interesting conversation on C-Span last night with Lawrence Lessig about how the left and the right have common interests.


  • http://en-gb.facebook.com/onanov Donald Baxter

    That the Tea Partier is answering his own questions regarding Wells Fargo speaks volumes as to where his sympathy lies.

  • http://en-gb.facebook.com/onanov Donald Baxter

    If you had any questions to whether the Tea Party is schilling for big business, this was answered in this segment. (yes)

  • LKS

    I’m lost- if Jim feels that we should change the laws that caused the problem- financial collapse- why is the tea party’s main message less government? The fact that our government was asleep at the wheel of regulations and laws put in place to prevent these banks running amok why would the answer be- well let’s shrink the government, let’s get rid of the rule making body? Its like having seeing a teenager cause an accident then you go down and demand a DMV shutdown. I don’t want less government. I want a government that does what it says it will do. I want a a government run by people for the people, not some people, not those folks versus them folks. We the people-period.

    • Anonymous

       Exactly. The tea party are a bit confused about this point. What we have is a dysfunctional government that is pretty much run by special interest. The tea party is about being against Obama and the democrats, they really do not care about the issues of income inequality or the lack of regulations that gave us this huge recession.

    • Ilba4ever

      Your statement assumes that the problem – financial collapse – is caused by the financial institutions.  That is a false assumption.  It also assumes that the reason the financial institutions caused the collapse is because of a lack of oversight of regulations and laws put in to place to prevent banks from running amok.  Which is also false.  The regulations and government intervention is what caused the bubble in the first place.  All bubbles will eventually burst because they are a gap between where the market naturally would be vs. where the market is as a result of outside intervention.  The bubble was caused by regulations and laws that forced lenders to lend money to uncreditworthy borrowers at low yields.  The yields were not high enough to offset the higher default rates due to the riskier borrower pool.  When these loans predictably lost massive amounts of money, the market was further altered by the government´s bailout of these institutions.  The government cannot legislate altruism or charity among its constituents.  Eventually the self interest of every individual will alter the equation back into balance regardless of what regulations or laws the government imposes.  As the government continues to interfere, is simply prolongs and steeps the climb back to prosperity.  As you take more and more of the fruits of labor from the productive individual and give it to others, you reduce the incentive for production.  Eventually, the option to do nothing with your capital becomes more and more attractive than lending or investing it.  Why put your capital at risk, or waste energy on labor without any incentive to do so?  Capping what yields you get on high risk borrowers will always result in the long term with less funds available to those who have a higher risk profile.  In the short term they may receive cheap loans & the cost will be borne by those borrowers with lower risk, but when the government again intervenes with a bailout to alter the equation again, everyone knows that the bubble is still there and another collapse lies ahead in the not too distant future.  The markets need to be left alone, and the participants (people) will fix the problem.  ¨Big Corporations¨ can control nothing without collusion from the government.

  • Dh001g

    To answer the question “what would I want from the president of Wells-Fargo bank”: I want him and others to stop bribing public officials. Large banks paid to have the laws changed so that what once was called fraud no longer is – in particular looks as some of the decisions in 2004 in which the federal government overruled North Carolina state consumer protection laws. Both OWS and the tea party should get together to stop the corruption which is ruining our system. Really both are right. The problem as I see it is are large corporations buying big government. whether it is sweet heart contracts in Iraq for Haliburton or large bailouts for Citibank and Goldman Sachs, we can all agree the there is an unhealthy relationship between corporations and government. I would personally support the constitutional amendment which was just proposed saying money is not speech. In my mind, money isn’t speech its bribery. There was an excellent segment on Planet Money about how government is for sale, and On Point also did a nice segment a few days ago.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you for having the civil discourse on your program today. As an Occupier (part of Occupy Huntington, WV) I feel that the two camps DO have much more in common then what we give ourselves credit for.I know that in our group, we have had some libertarians, republicans and tea party supporters come down to discuss the issues. We don’t agree on everything, but there is certainly enough common ground for us to find where we do align.

    As long as we can remain divided, it only empowers the forces that wish to keep the status quo, in Washington and in New York.

  • Henry J

    I was struck by the difference in approach and tone between the Occupy Memphis person on the show and the Tea Party person.  The Occupy person seemed genuinely interested in understanding the Tea Party positions and finding common ground and areas of agreement and responded directly and reasonably to the questions that were put to her.  All the Tea Party person did was criticize and attack the Occupy movement, its participants, and its approach, even to the point of red-baiting, which I thought we outgrew at least a generation ago.   To me, that is a very telling difference.    

  • Okitaris

    The problem is the ownership of money.     We have a belief that making rich men richer will drive the economy lifting the rest of us.  This may have worked if the field of play was limited to the U.S. But they now take there money all around the world finding the cheapest labor.   Then bringing there products back to the U.S. to sell.
    The Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movement have little in common.     The Tea Party would like to give all the political power to the wealthy.    They believe that those who have money are ordained to lead.  
    Bringing the Communist Party flag into this discussion is appropriate in that the Hammer and Sickle represent the industrial workers and the farmers respectively.    The farmers in the U.S. have been forced off the land in the misguided notion that highly mechanisation agriculture is the best way.  A short foray into how your food is grown and prepared in factories will dispel any notion that industrial agriculture is the best way to create food.   
    All the people who have been drawn into the capitalist way and that is most of us in the U.S.  will find our allegiance to this type of system disastrous.  What is the story.   Well we start with the flock of geese in the farmyard.   The farmer when he is hurting for money he pulls the brass ring out of his pocket ties a string to it and while holding the other end of the string throws the ring into the flock of geese.  Geese like shiny objects and grab and swallows the ring.   But the digestive system of the goose knows better and passes the ring right out the back end.  An other goose sees the ring hanging there and swallows until all the geese the farmer want to take to the butcher are on the string.   All of us have had to swallow this ring.  We do not have much of a choice.   We see the result of this brass ring chase in the destruction of the environment   We see it in this disaster building in Europe.   Soon the monetary crisis will envelope the entire western world.  

    The Occupy Wall Street movement is a redistributive movement who probably believe that the people who make the money valuable with there work should also control how that that money is invested.    

    Just why should the greediest people control the system.    Greed is an emotion which is the result of insecurity. The insecurity is caused by the capitalists system’s irrational behaviour of people fighting (competing) over the worlds resources.    All wars are a fight over resources.        The only repair for the present system is to return most of us to the farm and create a true rural society where people share the resources.    
    We do not want to turn back the clock with the Tea Party who pretend to be on the side of the worker while wishing to reinstate them as peasants.

  • Mika

    It’s embarrassing to listen to both sides of this discussion. It reflects how poorly educated a segment of our country is and why other nations are on the rise. These two speakers are idiots. One watches too much Fox News and the other just read flyers about the influence of corporations on politics. 

  • Tom in Vermont

    Your Tea Party guest must be watching too much Fox News. The reason for OWS is obvious. Get the money – from the banks and others – out of Politics. Stop buying the politicians is the point.
    Fox News does not report these things, so many Tea Partiers are living in a bubble of ignorance.

  • Ladyluck123

    Tea Partiers mistakenly believe that government and corporations are distinct, the former being evil and the latter good.  Corporations have succeeded in hiding the ball and blaming the government.  They are two sides of the same coin, both corrupt and broken.  That’s why going to Washington to change the laws is misguided.

  • Herbtech

    The TEA party is nothing more than a mouth piece for the ultra right wing of the Republican party.  To African Americans they present as racist due to how they presented themselves during the health care debate, how they displayed the President and how they treated African American lawmakers.

    Understand they were nowhere to be seen under Bush, who spent like a drunken sailor (John McCain’s words) but now all a sudden they want to cut govt spending, meaning cutting jobs, plain and simple.  They can dress it up, but remember Chaney said “deficits didn’t matter”?? Now all a sudden they’re so concerned about the deficit when the biggest problem facing this country is jobs and lack of consumer demand to drive the economy due to a lack of jobs or job insecurity. 

    So the TEA party can use all the Republican talking point they want, they’re bought and paid for by the Koch brothers and they’re doing this county a great disservice but they don’t care.  They only want to bring down President Obama and put us back on the course of tax cuts for the rich and damn the poor.

    I hope OWS doesn’t fall for the TEA party talking points.  Look how fox news, the other part of the Republican party lynch mob talk about the OWS movement.  Druggies, sex fiends, scum, idiots, dupes and other names are used to characterize the OWS movement. Peaceful protesters are beaten simply for being and not for any illegal activity or active resistance to law enforcement.  Both fox news and the TEA party approve of these tactics. 

  • R.

    Both the Occupiers and the Tea Party are populist, one for the left the other for the right.  Populists always try to present themselves as the representatives of the  “common man” who is being oppressed by an all-powerful elite.   Populists tend to exaggerate both the elite’s power and their own victimhood.  The Nazis were populists who came to power claiming that Jews were ruining Germany.  For the Tea Party, the elites are sneaky scientists and big-government liberals who are destroying the country.  For OWS, the elites are in the sinister, super-evil one percent who single-handedly caused the economic collapse and the widening gap ‘tween rich and the rest of us (never mind the fact that regular people contributed to the housing bubble and that we’ve had a bunch of elections that helped enact much of what OWS is against).

  • Chet Shupe

    Saving the
    World by Rediscovering Happiness

    a time when people worldwide are “occupying Wall Street,” it  might be wise 
    to ask:  Is there a way of life by
    which we are not dependent on Wall Street? Surely we have it in us. By trusting
    our lives to the members of our extended families is how we made it possible
    for our species to flourish during the long period before monetary and legal
    systems took us over. Our need to return to a state of mind in which we seek
    contentment and security in our relationships, instead of in wealth and
    privilege, is what the book, Eden –
    Regaining our Spiritual Freedom, is all about. Having established a way of
    life based on real needs, we will no longer look to “Wall Street” for salvation
    – which, in the end, it cannot offer anyhow. 

    modern humans, life’s purpose is to produce and distribute resources. Indeed,
    we evaluate the ideologies of Capitalism and Communism on the basis of which
    system enables us to produce the most, a contest Capitalism has won. But the
    notion we are on Earth to produce resources is a mistake. We are members of a
    highly-evolved social species for whom relationships, not resources, are our
    most basic need. During the 100 thousand years or so that humans existed in our
    natural state – before there was wealth and privilege – we attained our
    resources through our relationships. The fact that our need for relationships
    is paramount is evident in that even people of wealth and privilege are not
    happy when lonely, or when their relationships are not working. Others who are
    not so well off, but whose relationships are working, are happy.

    our natural state, humans managed for our species’ to flourish by trusting
    their lives to one another. By our genetic disposition we know that trust is the prerequisite for any functional
    relationship – something that neither capitalism nor communism allows. In
    capitalism, our personal sense of wellbeing is far more dependent on the value
    of our bank account than on the wellbeing of those around us. How can one
    possibly trust one’s life to relationships based on other than mutual needs? In
    communism, survival requires that we account directly to the state according to
    edict, rather than serve one another according to soul-felt needs. In either
    case, relationships are rendered so insufficient that, instead of realizing
    happiness through them, as do the members of other social species, we –
    including the privileged – live mostly in pursuit of happiness.

    where do we seek happiness? Having effectively banned relationships based on
    trust, we look for it in the acquisition of things. This explains our
    dependence on Wall Street, despite the failures of capitalism including even
    the threat of monetary system failure. We continue to worship capitalism while
    the proliferation of goods and services it so proficiently makes possible
    continues to threaten our very survival via a denatured habitat.

    a few of us were somehow inspired to secure our lives in relationships, instead
    of money and law, including rules that prescribe how we are to serve the other
    members of our extended families, the idea of spiritual freedom might just
    catch on. When realizing happiness in our relationships, ever-increasing
    numbers of us would no longer have to pursue our fruitless search for happiness
    in wealth and privilege, thereby relieving us of our gluttonous need for
    “things” This would ease the pressure we are placing on this beautiful little
    blue marble suspended somewhere in deep space – the one that produced us and
    that is also trying to sustain us.
    Chet Shupe

  • G Goodwin

    I felt like you gave Jim Tomasik plenty of time to sound patronizing toward Mallory Pope, yet when he likened the return of corporate properties to something communist, you did not educate him in a specific way about the supreme court’s decision about the seizure of many homes in New London CT – not for government use, but for private use by a developer!

  • GreatLakesCitizen

    The man from the tea party was an ignorant bullywho took up almost all the time. Please don’t waste our time letting them repeat their tired, simplistic arguments. We learned nothing from this exchange.

  • rwvt

    The original tea party was a protest against a corporation (The East India Tea Company) and the British gov’t which was giving it preferential treatment.  The U.S. was founded with the intent that corporations would not exist except to serve the public good and only for a limited period of time.  Our constitution did not intend that “corporate personhood” should ever exist.  In fact, our founders did not want anything like corporate personhood to be a possibility given what they revolted against.  

    The present day tea party is a misnomer and and oxymoron.  Many of its most outspoken members argue strongly for no regulation of corporations and it has been clearly documented that the Koch brothers and their corporate interests are big funders & organizers of the tea party.

    The political influence & power of corporations & the extremely, which they use to serve their self interests and not the interest of our nation, is eroding our democracy.  Therefore, OWS is much more in-line with the original intent of our founders and their activities are much more in defense of our constitution.  I’m thinking of joining them in their efforts.

    • Jas. Smith & 330~418~6449

      Perhaps the participants in today’s discussion could agree that central government has taken away the status of State’s sovereignty and eroded decentralized power; in which historically the economic power was in large measure controlled in local BANKs (and by we the people) with constitutional specie money.  The 1980 Monetary Control Act has shifted the economic controls and market manipulations to Corporations (policy makers) which have greedy board members corrupted by FIAT “DEBT money”  { www.fame.org }  and verifiable FRAUD with the illegitimate 16th & 17th Amend’ Articles … thus SEE also www.thelawthatneverwas.com .  With the FRAUD of that 17th… well explained; the classical understanding of  the Upper House called that “U.S. Senate” is now entirely de facto and certainly NOT de jure.  You might also examine the explanations in book titled Throw Them All Out  byPeter Schweizer .
               My own brother was a smoozer and walk~on independent director—> who became Chairman of WACHOVIA CORPORATION; which collapsed into WELLS FARGO…   in 2008.  So I do not suffer fools (or foolish brothers) gladly. . . while my name is on the Declaration of Independence (3rd below “Benj. Franklin”) and I might admit to being a Truther + a Birther + a NON~Filer + a C.O. in reference to the name~calling prevaricators in D.C. and N.Y.C.    At Akron, OHIO… our monthly WeThePeople meetings began over five years ago [before the T.E.A. parties bloomed], as we have time for quite a bit of clarification and political forensics with  Mallory Pope and Jim Tomasik.  We would be pleased to hear from them and to hold up our end of any arguments about what FRAUD is involved in WAGE taxation and also in a very misunderstood FAIR TAX proposal; which bespeaks great ignorance of the accounting records and the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports = CAFR’s.
                So what popular and educational DVD’s do you favor in a sincere and logic explanation of what has happened to create the current lack of any de jure government?
                 And thank you for your time!     Sincerely,  Jim  via  OrangeTwpJim@yahoo.com .

  • Cjwalla2

    OWS has now gotten the world’s attention… it’s time to move to D.C. to demand Congress and the President to DO something about OWS’ demands…I’m confused as to what those demands are! So, I would suggest OWS  make a clear, concise list of demands (ie) reform campaign finance (Big Corp. $=BRIBERY)
    End lobbying=Bribery; prosecute the WS crooks and create stronger bank regulations…for starters!

  • Onesky11

    The Tea Party is funded by Freedom Works and the Koch Brothers to promote the far Right agenda that refuses to raise taxes and caused our credit rating to be down-graded. They are not motivated by outrageous lies like “Death Panels,” Obama is a Muslim, he was not born in America, and any number of fake issues promoted on Fox News. OWS represents the buyer’s remorse of the results of the 2010 election that has blocked any progress in solving problems for the past year.

  • Rick in royal oak

    It seem to me that the OWS is missing a chance to speak their unique individual concept to the corporate powers. I think every protestor should purchase one share of the corporation they think is the worst offender and use that share to vote on issues that are important to them.

  • occupy freedom

    Im sick of hearing that people dont understand the occupy movement.  Putting representatives into office is not going to do anything. That is just buying into a system that has obviously run over the american people and their ideas of freedom. The idea of representatives totally contradicts what the prostesters are trying to do. Why must the voice of the people always have to come from the mouth of some politician? Topple the Government and burn the flag! We constantly kid ourselves about what america is really made of. This is a nation born in bloodshed and tyranny. Stop kidding yourself, we dont need a new system, we need no system. Politicians dont care about people. The piece on NPR last week on insider trading and politicians becoming millionares while in office only confirms just how corrupt the american government has become. The tea party is just as misguided as the occupy movement. They only hide behind the guise of “patriotism”. People seem too afraid to call for anarchy, but I feel it may be the only thing that can save the people of this country. We have been controlled since this country was founded. Which is hippacritical in and of itself because the founding of america was based on people striving to get away from the control and tyranny of British rule. What did we do when we got here? Massacre the native people and take their land for our own. Fast foreward 100 years to americans enslaving africans to do the work that they chose not to. Where is this massive sense of pride coming from? We are tyrants! America going broke and its people revolting against a corrupt system may be the only way to save ourselves.

  • Jtgunter

    I think the Tea party person does not have the right analogy when he says that the OWS should not be protesting the bank – they should protest the government for not enforcing the law (paraphrased into what I though he was saying).  Some of the Wall Street banks did DEFRAUD (in the legal sense) people by selling toxic deviates as not risky.  They were paid a premium for non-risky assets – money from real people for a product that was not as advertised.  They should be prosecuted for their crime.  Some banks were defrauded also, however they have been bailed out.  The money cannot be returned to those it was stolen from by misrepresenting the risk associated with the deviates, but some of these people should do jail time.

    Next point is the banks actively spend money to gut the laws that regulate them.  Immoral, but not illegal.  Why is that?  should it not be illegal?  The politicians must be called out on this.  That will happen in Nov 2012.

    Another thing is the OWS should remember before occupying DC in December is that the politicians will be going home and not be there much of the time.  I’d encourage them to push their occupation back to late February.  The cherry blossoms will start a month or two latter and the weather will be a little kinder.  The politicians will be in town and their voice will be louder towards the election.

    Last point is congress should not adjourn until they fix the mess they have caused – even if they stay there through Christmas  day. There is absolutely no defensible reason that the budget problem has not been resolved.  The President submitted a budget in February 2011, but congress did not do their constitutional duty because of politics. Tax increases must be balanced with spending cuts – cuts alone will not get the job done.  The problem is the economy is weak because there is no demand for goods and services.  Massive spending cuts will reduce demand further and dig a deeper hole for the economy.  Modest tax increases and targeted spending cuts will help the short term economy.  As the  economy strengthens, cuts can be increased and tax increases re-evaluated.  Tax code can be evaluated and the base broadened and the rates lowered – incrementally.  Lets see if things work like we think. You can’t do a good long term debt reduction plan until we get the economy growing.  Tax and spending cuts and gutting regulations  will not do this because it will not increase demand. It transefer wealth to the businesses, but does not result in a large increase in demand. Spending cuts alone are the death-knell for the economy.

  • ouiseau

    I agree with commentators who found the Tea Party representative a bully. Like Fox News and many Republicans, he is able to make statements that sound like something we can all agree on, but that actually make no sense. Why is it okay for government to take property from individuals to give to corporations (see G Goodwin’s comment) but not from corporations for the public good? How much BLM (public) land has fed into mining companies’ profits? How much do we– as taxpayers or the insured– have to spend on the health issues caused by corporate pollution? If the Tea Party is for individual responsibility, they should want to make sure that companies are not profiting by harming the rest of us, which they are currently doing to an enormous degree.
    Also, Mallory was not allowed to respond to the last comment that OWS should try to change the laws that have allowed Wall Street to get away with the recent economic destruction. Actually, many of the laws are there, but not being enforced. Politicians and CEO’s are members of the same wealthy elitist club. Of course they don’t want to put in jail the people whose cocktail parties they attend! This is the point– government is now owned by the corporations to an unprecedented degree. If the Tea Party wants to reduce the size of government, they should stop cuddling with corporations and understand that Blackwater, Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, Boeing, GE will need to take very large hits (i.e. clean up and pay taxes). Unless they’d rather dismantle the social safety net and have old people and children begging in the streets as in Brazil!

  • Robgronan

    The Tea Party guy Jim Tomasik said “The communist flag was flown by occupy protesters” and”…in Vietnam…they were fighting against people waving that same flag”.

     What is the communist flag?  The only media report I can find is some people flying a flag with Che Guevara, the Cuban revolutionary hero, on it.  Does he mean hammer and sickle flag?  I have found no reference to anyone flying the “red flag with yellow star” adopted by North Vietnam in 1955, or the red over blue with yellow star” of the Viet Cong,  which would have been waved by the “people” in Vietnam.

    Beside ignoring  the main point of the OWS protests against economic injustice,  and trying to characterize  it as some fringe whackos with flags, Mr Tomasik would appear to be ignorant of history.  The Viet Cong were not flying Che Guevara or hammer and sickle flags!

    And do I understand correctly by his comment that “they should be going after the government that allows things to happen” he wants greater governmental regulations?  I thought that the Tea Party was against greater controls on capitalism.

  • SamIAm

    A suggestion for the tea party person: if you truly want to create dialogue, shelve the patronizing tone. You don’t have all the answers so don’t pretend that others’ suggestions are inferior and incoherent. Lay down the Faux News rhetoric and try something that hasn’t occurred in the Republican party for decades: critical thinking. 

  • David Barkelew

    The dialog between the Tea Party and Occupy is the logical and healthy next phase of this movement to revitalize our democracy, and the predictable presence of extremists in both movements illuminates a vulnerability inherent in the very concept of democracy.  My thought is that self-governance requires each of us to remain thoughtfully involved in an evolving, face-to-face dialog.  To do less, presents an opportunity for special interest groups to usurp the power of governance by fostering nonsensical and irrelevant rivalries.    How often have you heard someone admonish you to not bring up a political question in a social gathering?  To me that seems like a lazy and feckless attitude that demeans the concept of democracy.  Certainly, the ancient Greeks would not have allowed such a person to caste a vote.

  • kate

    It looks like a bunch of left wing hacks who are watching way too much MSNBC here making comments.

  • Honeybadgersneedlove2

    Yeah!  That mean old tea party guy was such a meanie!    Leave us commies ALONE! 

  • Pinosearlymorning

    The Communist Flag is being flown in Memphis at the Occupy Memphis camp.  Go see it for yourself. 

    This is the flag that is being flown.



    It may not mean a damn thing to you but it sure means a lot to families of American soldiers who spent time over there fighting.  Someone commented that to mention this was “red meat”.  Not near as much so as it is to be flying it on American soil. 

    I’m glad to see that OWS is owning it.

  • T Clifton

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