Friday, September 2, 2011

Truthers: How Conspiracy Theories Spread

Hank Black, left, hold up a sign at a meeting of the North Texans for 9/11 Truth group in Dallas in July. (AP)

Hank Black, left, hold up a sign at a meeting of the North Texans for 9/11 Truth group in Dallas in July. (AP)

On September 11, 2001, two planes crashed into the Twin Towers in NYC, one plane crashed into the Pentagon in Washington D.C. and a final plane crashed in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. But there’s a very vocal minority that doesn’t believe this story: Truthers.

These so called “Truth Activists” cite evidence that they say points to an alternative, and much more sinister version of events, evidence that has been proved wrong countless times.

Jonathan Kay writes for the Canadian newspaper, National Post. In his book “Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America’s Growing Conspiracist Underground,” Kay writes that his first interaction with Truthers came in 2008 when he wrote about  Canadian parliament candidate and truther, Lesley Hughes.

In a blog post for the National Post, Jonathan Kay called Hughes’ Truther opinions on 9/11, “nutbar.” His inbox was flooded with emails within hours. Kay writes that, as a member of the media, he was used to conspiracy theorists flooding his inbox, but writes “the Truthers who contacted me were different. Most were outwardly ‘normal,’ articulate people who kept up with the news and held down office jobs–but who also happened to have become obsessively fixated on very particular, and very radical theories about the people running the U.S. government.”

Kay points to the Internet as a leading factor in the rise of conspiracy theories. He says that the web not only allows people to self publish (dodging the obstacle of editors and fact checkers), but also allows people to bypass mainstream media and only read conspiracy theory “news sites.”

Guest

  • Jonathan Kay, author of “Among The Truthers: A Journey Into America’s Growing Conspiracist Underground”

We welcome comments from all of our listeners. Post below. Please stay on topic and be civil. Comments may be moderated by us, but you are solely responsible for the content of your comments.

  • Kated

    I used to think that the creationists were harmless conspiracy theorists because, really, what does it matter what anyone believes about that? Now I look around and see that their tactics of bending research, selectively using information, or simply ignoring facts, and/or evidence is everywhere. The lack of critical thinking is stunning, and I have found myself flabbergasted talking to friends that I KNOW are intelligent, thoughtful and well educated about 9/11, or global warming, or Afghanistan, or any number of other things that have real hard evidence that they simply discount.

    • Michael McGinnis

      Exactly. There is plenty of hard evidence that no airplane hit the Pentagon. I am willing to bet anyone $10,000 in cash that they cannot destroy a jet engine, titanium turbines and all, in an open air jet fuel (kerosene) fire as the plane outside of the Pentagon was officially destroyed. Not really a bet, since the official story is physically impossible. Fair warning: I studied mechanical engineering at university. This is a serious offer.
      Mike@Michael-McGinnis.com

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Interesting bet, but I don’t have a 757 to use in the test.

    • Jim

      Well said! It is hard for people to join together and solve problems when a portion of the people will not let a little thing like reality and common sense get in the way of their beliefs.

  • Michael McGinnis

    “Truthers” and “conspiracy theorists” are terms used to deflect thinking from the topic and focus on the person, “ad hominem attacks”. I presume that, since the guest is a journalist, he has followed up on the Loose Change documentary and spoken with the firemen in the Twin Towers who said there were bombs going off, he has spoken to the Coroner in Penn. who said there were no bodies in the plane wreck? Has he spoken to the CNN reporter on-site who said there was no plane wreck? Are we really to believe that the entire airplane outside of the Pentagon vaporized in the flames, including the titanium turbines? The FBI collected more than 150 video tapes from security cameras surrounding the Pentagon but has only allowed 3 frames of one tape to be released… why not all of the frames of all of the tapes that show the crash & fire? These are important historical records. Why are they kept secret?

    He’s wrong that the government has to be “super-competent” to hide a huge conspiracy. All that’s necessary is that almost nobody be willing to think it could be true, which lets people fool themselves and dismiss others as “nuts”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeffery.humphrey Jeffery Humphrey

      And the out right lie the “Journalist” forward about the record of limited seismic activity not being present to prove explosives were used. USGS instruments picked up the explosions and the subsequent collapse as far north as Buffalo New York. He has not done his due diligence and he along with N.P.R are trying to forward the “Official” narrative by the “Band Wagon” appeal for reasons I suspect that if what “Truthers” are proposing is the truth then we as American have more problems then a corrupt Electoral system and Islamic Extremists.

    • Iraqibrett

      The word usage of “ad hominem” is from the leftist mind program book – coined time and time again by folks like Julian Assange and Arizona shooter Loughner. If I had a nickle for every bitter and grandstanding malcontempt who used words like ad hominem, sheeple and disengenious – I would be super rich! (dismissed as omnisequent and uninformed arguement)

      Conspiracy theories are not nearly as revealing as peoples willingness to believe in them.

  • Dbhoward2001

    your program and your guest neglected to mention anything about the vehicles down the street from the WTC that were melted, engines turned to dust, door handles gone,,,care to explain this, all they had on them was some dust…seems there was more here than meets they eye….

  • Jim

    The casual closing comment The Jonathan Kay said that maybe the Truthers buy conspiracies as a substitute for other missing belief systems. That statement completely  mystifies me.  If I’m not an Evangelical or whatever does  that that mean I am a crazy?

    • John

      We don’t need to be mystified that anyone, having lost something, will look for something to replace it.

      • ivan

        Who said we “lost something.” How about we gained insight, wisdom, independent thought. i didn’t renounce religion, then go on a search for something to replace it. I realized I could think for myself and understand the world much better through logic and experience. Some people don’t need an institution to make them feel secure and satisfied with life. 

        • Johnmichael

          No, you don’t have to use the language of “lost something” if you don’t find it appropriate.  The original point made by the interviewee was that we live in a post-Christian era, and one of the things this means is that some of the old explanations (provided by Christianity) don’t make sense to many (most?) people anymore. 

          If these explanations don’t make sense to us anymore, then yes, we are going to look for other explanations that do make sense.  For many, this includes seeking a deeper understanding of Christianity that does encompass logic and modern knowledge, among other things.  The European humanist, Erasmus of Rotterdam, and the Christian theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, are two examples of those finding a deeper connection between Christianity and all of human experience. 

          Beyond that, Christianity is not merely a matter of institutions any more than science (or any other discipline) is solely a matter of institutions or professional organizations. 

          Yes, to gain insight, wisdom, and independent thought… and to rely on logic and experience are valuable things.  Christianity is not opposed to these things.  In fact, it welcomes them.  It is unfortunate that the mistaken “Christian” upbringing of many of our friends may have led them to suppose otherwise.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      No.  The problem is that many have lost faith in traditional religion simply because it is traditional, not from a line of reasoning.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Fraud-Carry/687622744 Jon Fraud Carry

      No, it just means that you are crazy. Pure and simple. Like all Truthers.

  • ccl

     This was an excellent story on air, although to be fair the main narrative of September 2001 terrorist attacks is also a conspiracy story.  I think we need to understand that as a starting point for understanding why theories of other conspiracies are able to get psychological purchase.  But I particularly appreciated Robin and Jonathan Kay bringing out how the kinds of conspiracy stories you focused on depend on an image of an implausibly supercompetent, almost omnipotent government, which is one big reason I find them unpersuasive.  I will be looking for Mr. Kay’s book. 

  • ccl

    Despite liking the story, your photo above is unfortunate, as the issues raised in the demonstrators’ signs are genuine.  Our civil liberties have been severely eroded, apologists for torture hold high office and have influence in government, the imperial presidency has been resurrected and is now being carried out by President Obama in similarly unconstitutional ways to President Bush’s actions.  Thinking those things in no way depends on believing that the government was behind the September 2001 attacks.  While government-conspiracists look to such consequences and infer from them intent, in fact they could and did arise from effective opportunism.  One of the great pities of the “Truther” movement is that it distracts from focus on these bad consequences of the quite genuine, obvious and well-documented fear-mongering by the government in the wake of the attacks, and divides people in fighting to reverse them.  Here and Now has even done stories on these legitimate concerns and efforts.  Please change this picture and stop smearing the real, reasonable honest issues with association with irrationalist conspiracism. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/jeffery.humphrey Jeffery Humphrey

    In my 32 short years of life I have learned many things, one is to never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explain by stupidity. That was my first reaction to the interview with John Kay when right off the bat he made the logical fallacy of “Appeal to Authority” when he mentioned the 9/11 commissions report and his statement that followed.  That fallacy assumes that “we” the public are to stupid to gather the qualifying information about a topic and make up our own minds as to the nature of that topic. The subsequent information he delivered followed that line of Logical Fallacy when he explained the nature and varying view points of “Conspiracy Theorist”. To point out the earlier commentators observation of “Ad Hominem” in the interview I would like to add the following information. What was the reason for the brief narrative about the college student smoking illicit drugs, even though he makes the short blurb that most “Truthers” do not condone that life style?
    As an Iraq Veteran I know fully the lengths my government will go to to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to forward a narrative and I am proud to call myself a “Truther” because it requires me to take full account of my faculties as a human and to digest information from varying sources to produce a complete picture of my world and the world around me. I find this piece and the corresponding book a front to logical thinking people, and that’s not to say that there are not charlatans in the “Alternative Media” (World Net Daily, and the likes of their followers are an example). I see this as a plea for the status quo by N.P.R and the fact that people are gradually waking up to a concise operation perpetrated on them, either by “Conspirators” or the stupid that take what they say at face value.

    Sgt. Jeffery Humphrey (Honorably Discharged)
    U.S. Army Infantry 1998-2005
    Samarra Iraq 2004-2005
    Purple Heart Recipient
    Pagan Philosopher (B.A. Religious Studies and Philosophy, Western Kentucky University)

    • Anonymous

      Well said.

  • J Frog

    I do think there is a fine line between “conspiracy theorists” and false “connections”.  I remember a while back after the shooting tragedy in Tucson.  There was a theory that Sarah Palin’s political “crosshairs” computer webpage had somehow influenced the shooter.  Was there ever any evidence of that?  Did his computer show he had visited that page?  Was there ANY evidence he admired Sarah Palin and agreed with her philosophy?  Yet the mainstream continued with the story for days.  Do a google search on “Sarah Palin Jared Loughner”….see how many hits you get.  Conservative media (the Glen Beck types) is guilty of it, too.

  • scott

    You did an excellent job of presenting one side of the story. Wow, conspiracy throrists could be mentally unstable or may be smoking who knows what? With hit peices like this, no wonder people turn to those “conspiracy websites” to get their news. You demonstrate why many people don’t trust the Main Stream Media. At least we know False Flag attacks have occured in the past.

    • Iraqibrett

      Here and Now gets a spot on a privately funded syndicate like NPR with no real sponsors that they have to “sell” for and she becomes main stream media? Like FOX? What a pathetic cop out! It seems like you might use the same disregard for anyone who disagrees with your fantasies. I am just an ordinary person and not the main stream media. The leftist mind program book says WOW at others to insult them – as well as terms like sheeple and disengenuous.

      The real main stream media tells the truth: that truthers are just sniveling moronic loosers and bitter malcontempts who are predisposed to believe anything evil about the people of their country… The truth hurts doesn’t it?… That is why you avoid it so much.

  • T_wells

    Looking at the above comments, it amazes me that so many put so much faith into very tenuous details to hold on to a conspiracy belief when the mos obvious evidence is thrown out when it contradicts the conspiracy theory.

    For most of the conspiracy theories to hold, you have to WANT to believe them, rather than look at the preponderance of evidence and make a logical decision about what is reality.

    • Guest

      I WANT to believe the official explanation. But I have to believe physics instead.  If the towers weren’t rigged for demolition, then all steel skyscrapers are at risk of collapse due to fire.   Why don’t other burning steel skyscrapers (eg the CCTV tower in 2009) implode into bits? Why only those three on that day?

      I have no idea who rigged towers with explosives.  I’m not claming ‘inside job’ but i’m saying we don’t know the whole truth.  Am I a crazy ‘conspiracy theorist’?  Should I just stop believing in physics and shut up and be quiet?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        You don’t know the whole story.  The Twin Towers were vulnerable by their design, given the way that the steel floor joists were tied to the vertical structure.  How common is the particular design of the Twin Towers?

        • Guest

          The floors of the towers weren’t just big squares tied at the corners.  There was a huge core in the center. You make it sound like there were 105 square slabs basically tied to 4 corners.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Fraud-Carry/687622744 Jon Fraud Carry

        Sure, they were rigged with explosives. And they got Mohammed Atta to fly into the exact floor where the explosives were set.
        Yup.
        Makes sense.
        If you are crazy.

  • John

    Please give David Ray Griffin an interview on this show.  I was interested in alternate conspiracy theories regarding the 911 attacks, because I felt the official conspiracy theory (Al-Qaeda as the conspirators) did not fully explain the events that occurred.  After reading David’s book, “Debunking 9/11 debunking”, I am convinced that there are too many errors and omissions in the official conspiracy theory.   I highly recommend this book to anyone looking for reasons why many of us question the official story.

    • Wb

      I am replying to NPR more than to John.  How come NPR will only give air time to the propaganda of Johnathan Kay and James Meigs who try to primarily discredit people rather that provide facts.  NPR is fast losing it credibility with its listeners.  Try interviewing David Ray Griffin or Professor Steven Jones for some real facts and stop throwing soft ball questions at these propagandist.

  • Physics just the physics

    The government’s official theory of 911 is a “conspiracy theory”.

    Forgot the weirdos and cooks. Look at the physics. How is it possible for a building to fall at free fall speed with no controlled demolition? The government report on building 7 admits the building fell at free fall speed for the first half of its fall. How can physics explain this? The bottom floors should offer resistance which would slow the fall down drastically. This is the crux of the matter.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      So the weight of the upper floors isn’t enough to force down the lower ones?  And what is so astonishing about a building going straight down?  Gravity is a downward force, perpendicular to flat ground.  The buildings didn’t fall immediately from the impact of the planes.  They fell from the collapse of the upper floors pressing the rest of the structure downward.

      • Gente

        Freefall speed is the issue. The only way for that to happen is with zero resistance.

        • Michael McGinnis

          The buildings were designed to withstand impact from the largest airplanes. These are the only 3 steel reinforced concrete buildings I’ve found that have collapsed from fire. Usually they can burn for days and not fall down. The suggestion that flame protecting material was stripped off by the explosion is absurd, since virtually all of the steel was deeply buried under concrete. Four plane wrecks, no bodies, entire planes vaporizing… the whole official story doesn’t make sense.

      • Dbhoward2001

        If the weight of the upper floors were enough to bring down building , what that hell was making it stand up, no building would stand, this is the problem you yahoos that believe anything, no common sense…none…I bet you also think jet fuel which burns at 1700 to 1800 degrees is enough to melt steel which melts at 2700 degrees…

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Fraud-Carry/687622744 Jon Fraud Carry

          OMG what an idiot. What makes buildings stand up? Seriously? They stand up because of steel and concrete. And when steel and concrete are compromised by fire, they collapse. The steel didn’t melt, it was structurally weakened.
          What the hell is the matter with you Truther fools? Why do you want to believe your nonsense?

          • Yonilaos

            Can gravity pulverize concrete into fine dust? Can gravity pulverize people, pulverize office furniture,pulverize carpet, etc? Can gravity throw tiny human bone fragments onto the roof tops of neighboring buildings? Can gravity act like a cannon and shoot giant things horizontally? Can gravity shoot giant steel columns outward with enough force to permanently imbed them into neighboring buildings?  Can gravity melt steel? Can gravity generate enough energy to keep steel molten or red hot weeks after the its initial work has been done? Could gravity have kept ground zero extremely hot for weeks after 9/11?
             If the answer is yes, then perhaps we have discovered a new form of energy….We can stop burning coal to fuel our electric generators. All we have to do now is drop giant pieces of steel and concrete from 80 story cliffs and then harness the heat from the impact zone to power our generators.

  • Yonilaos

    At
    least Mr. Kay admitted that some “truthers” are intelligent. However bringing up
    nonsense such as “lizard men” ruling the world was a cowardly act.
    There have always been, through out history, small portions of the population
    who remain in the fringe, who think outside the box, with more skepticism than
    their average neighbor. Liberty, freedom, and progress have never been free
    gifts, graciously handed out to the mass of people by those in control. Rather,
    all progress has to be fought for, relentlessly. The democratic process
    requires its participants to constantly ask “why”. Concentrated power
    is a poor place for anyone to place their blind faith or trust. Thought history,
    much is owed to those people who were brave enough to be among the first to
    stand up to power and ask “why”.

    So
    again to mention “Lizard Men” ruling the earth is a cowardly act,
    because by doing so, you are serving the interests of concentrated power and
    unfairly discounting the legitimate democratic voice of fellow citizens.
    Questioning authority does not make you a believer in Lizard Men, even though
    those who obtain authority would very much like everyone to believe so. Try for
    a moment to put aside the Gulf of Tonkins, the Maines, and the Reichstag’s.
    Instead think of the Pentagon Papers. Think of WMD’s in Iraq. Why? How many
    bombs did we drop on Laos and Vietnam? Why? To convince them to read Adam Smith
    instead of Karl Marx? Really? Why? How many men have passed through Guantanamo?
    How many actual convictions? Why?

    Ultimately
    it is not the leaders fault for the failure we are now forced to deal with. The
    problem lies with the people who were willing to place a naive and irrational
    faith in our government. In doing so, we have become the enablers of abusive
    behavior. But it is never too late to stop and ask why? When the people allow
    their government to mistreat its citizens, not only do the people suffer the immediate
    consequences, but they also demonstrate to the powerful that there is no
    recourse to their terrible behavior. And this sets the stage for our sons and
    daughters to be abused as well.

    Please
    look at the big picture on this tenth anniversary. We are still testing remains
    of the 911 crimes for DNA evidence in order to identify the victims. Should we
    not also then be allowed to test this evidence in order to identify ALL of the
    criminals as well? Never mind explosives in the dust. Lets talk about caustic
    ph levels. Lets talk about Asbestos. Our government encouraged its citizens to ignore
    the toxic quality of that dust. Your government will never care about you
    unless you demand that it cares about you. Especially when it has been
    corrupted by a massive, concentrated, and un-elected power. Once you understand
    this, you will no longer be afraid to test the dust for asbestos and other
    toxic substances, and you might at that point be curious enough to test for evidence
    of explosives as well. Even they who claim to love and trust this country
    should not be afraid of the dust from that destructive day. If you are weary of
    the “truthers”, prove them wrong once and for all. 

    Democracy is a tool, not a
    solution. Owning a lawnmower in your garage does not mean you will automatically
    have a beautiful front yard. It takes effort. You have to ask why constantly,
    in order to force those with authority to justify their authority. In a decent society, authority should only be used to protect the general welfare of all, not just the powerful interests of a few.

  • Jarl

    On 9/11/11, this Sunday, there will be an international hearing about 9/11 in Toronto.  Please go to the website at torontohearings.org to find out more about live streaming from this important event.

    The most outrageous “conspiracy theory” about 9/11 is the Cheney/Bush Regime Conspiracy Theory that 19 Arab hijackers and Osama Bin Laden “CONSPIRED” to bring about the events of 9/11.  Why doesn’t Mr. Kay label that a conspiracy theory??
    I have prepared some questions for the trial of the “alleged” 9/11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.  Thank you, Robin, for asking questions on your “Here and Now” program.  Jarl

                                    Questions
    from the World Community

                                       For the Trial of
    Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,                                                                                        The “Alleged 9/11
    Mastermind”,

                                   As the
    United States Continues to Base

                                  
    Foreign and Domestic Agenda on 9/11

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, how and when did
    “foreign” terrorists install explosives, including nanothermites, in the World
    Trade Towers and Building #7 before 9/11 to enable all three steel and concrete
    structures to disintegrate within seconds at nearly freefall acceleration, and
    to create pools of molten steel that rescue workers uncovered in the rubble?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, which “foreign”
    terrorists did you assign to detonate the explosives in the Twin Towers during
    the airplane attacks on 9/11 (as evidenced by seismic recordings), and exploded
    again within the hour following the air attacks (as reported by over 100 first
    responder survivors) to disintegrate the 110 story Towers within seconds?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, which “foreign”
    terrorists did you assign to detonate the explosives in the WTC Building # 7,
    and why did they wait for hours “to pull” the building as allegedly “ordered”
    by the World Trade Center’s new lease-holder, Larry Silverstein, who collected
    handsomely on his insurance policy, which specifically provided for a terrorist
    attack?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, why would you inform
    NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani that the Twin Towers were going to collapse, so that
    he actually announced their imminent demise before they exploded?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, which “foreign”
    terrorists did you assign to detonate the explosives in the Pentagon, which appear
    to have exploded during the mysterious air attack?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, why did you assign Hani
    Hanjour, a pilot of such rudimentary skills that he could barely navigate a
    Cessna, to allegedly fly a Boeing 757 into the Pentagon?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, where did the
    “foreign” terrorists dispose of the American Airlines Flight 77 Boeing 757 and
    its passengers and crew, which obviously could not have entirely disappeared
    into a hole in the wall of the Pentagon that was only 5 meters (15 feet) in
    diameter?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, with what aircraft,
    missile or warhead did “foreign” terrorists strike the Pentagon that could
    penetrate the exterior wall of Wedge 1 through the C-ring of Wedge 2 with a
    cleanly cut, circular hole?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, why would “foreign”
    terrorists strike the recently fortified first floor of Wedge 1, which was on
    the least accessible and the opposite side of the Pentagon from the National
    Military Command Center, where the offices of Donald Rumsfeld and top ranking
    military officials were located?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, after a national press
    conference on 9/10, when Donald Rumsfeld reported that the Pentagon was missing
    $2.3 Trillion Dollars, why did “foreign” terrorists bomb or strike the Pentagon
    precisely where the Army’s Financial Operations Office was located, killing
    most of the Operations Staff and destroying the financial records that were
    under audit?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, and if, as a Muslim terrorist,
    it was your “divine” mission to terrorize Americans, why did you choose to
    attack a nearly vacant, well-protected wing of the Pentagon, rather than to
    attack the unprotected nuclear reactor at Indian Point, NY, which would have
    horrifically terrorized the lives of millions of Americans?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, were you a devout
    Muslim, and, if so, did you drink alcohol, employee lap-dancing girls and party
    with Mohamed Atta (the alleged ringleader of the 9/11 terrorists), or why would
    you choose a man who was obviously not a devout Muslim for such a divine and
    fanatical, suicidal mission?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, where did the
    “foreign” terrorists dispose of the United Airlines Flight 93 and its
    passengers and crew (if it was not exploded in mid-air by US fighter pilots),
    which apparently did not crash into a hole in a Pennsylvania field where, according
    to numerous credible eye-witness reports, not enough parts were found to
    account for a Boeing 757 crash?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, why did you convince
    Dick Cheney to issue a “stand-down order” to insure that the hijacked planes,
    approaching metropolitan New York City and Washington, D.C., would not be
    intercepted (as per Standard Operating Procedure of the US Air Force), but to
    issue a shoot-down order for a plane over rural Pennsylvania, where the
    passengers might allegedly subdue the “hijackers”?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you know that the
    Vice President of the United States of America, Dick Cheney, would
    simultaneously direct the US Military in a “mock” terrorist attack on the World
    Trade Towers on the morning of 9/11?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you arrange a
    “computer glitch” for the 4 commercial airplanes, which alleged foreign
    terrorists hijacked,  to have only
    20% passenger occupancy, when all other flights on the East Coast were at
    nearly 100% passenger capacity on the morning of 9/11? 

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you actually place
    the alleged “foreign terrorists with box cutters” on the 4 hijacked airplanes
    on 9/11, or did you hijack the airplanes from a remote location, as,
    “coincidentally”, these 4 airplanes could be remotely controlled?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, if the planes were
    actually hijacked by hijackers wielding box cutters, how did your “Muslim
    hijackers” convince all 8 pilots of all 4 airplanes not to engage the
    airplanes’ transponders to squawk the hijack code within seconds, which is a
    standing order for all commercial airline pilots?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did the FBI finally
    compose the correct list of names of the alleged “19 Muslim terrorist
    hijackers” or have more of the men on the FBI’s final, adjusted list been found
    alive?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, while the American
    public demands someone to be held accountable for 9/11, are you “taking the
    fall”, since the Bush-Cheney Regime “alleges” Osama bin Laden is responsible,
    but after 8 years, according to the FBI, they have never produced credible
    evidence to indict him or have not captured him?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, were you ever a guest
    on the Texas ranch of George W. and Laura Bush with Osama bin Laden, when he
    was their guest prior to 9/11, or at any other time?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you convince
    George W. Bush to sanction safe passage for hundreds of Osama bin Laden’s
    family and friends to fly out of the United States in the 2 days following
    9/11, when all other flights were absolutely grounded?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you convince
    George W. Bush, who declared that he wanted Osama bin Laden, “Dead or Alive”,
    to allow him to escape capture in Afghanistan at Kabul, Jalalabad and Tora Bora,
    where 3 times the US Forces had him surrounded in November, 2001, before his
    massive convoy was permitted to drive safely into Pakistan?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you coach George
    W. Bush, the President of the United States of America, to sullenly sit in a
    classroom with children, with a guilty, “what now!” smug expression on his
    shameless face, after Andrew Card had twice announced to him that hijacked
    airplanes struck the first and then the second World Trade Tower, when a normal
    leader of any nation would have exited immediately to find out what was up … if
    he didn’t already know?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you convince the
    Secret Service not to immediately rush His Excellency, President George W.
    Bush, to a secure refuge, when they were informed that the United States was
    under siege by “foreign” terrorists … or did they have other information?

     

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind and a Pakistani ISI
    Agent, will you please clarify the intimate relationship between the Pakistani
    Intelligence Agency (ISI) and the CIA, as on 9/10, Saeed Sheikh (ISI agent in
    Pakistan) wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta (alleged ringleader of the 9/11
    terrorists in the US) at the direction of General Mahmoud Ahmad (ISI Director),
    who was personally in Washington that entire week meeting with George Tenent
    (CIA Director), Pentagon Officials, the National Security Council, and the
    State Department, whereupon you then allegedly gave Mohamed Atta the final
    authorization for the 9/11 attacks?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you personally
    profit from the enormous put options that were placed on American Airlines and
    United Airlines stocks just days prior to 9/11, or to whom did you leak
    information about the pending attacks that subsequently profited from the numerous
    put options?

     

    Ø  As you allegedly confessed to being the 9/11
    Mastermind, did you fabricate any details, after the lives of your children
    were threatened, or in order to stop being repeatedly subjected to torture
    through suffocation at Guantanamo, as condoned by Dick Cheney?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, what do you imagine
    Dick Cheney might confess if he were repeatedly subjected to the same torture
    techniques that he still justifies for alleged terrorists?

     

    Ø  As the alleged 9/11 Mastermind, did you, for more than
    one year, help the Bush-Cheney Regime prevent a formal investigation into 9/11,
    and then did you influence the Bush-Cheney Regime to select Philip Zelikow to
    control the 9/11 Commission in his subsequent distortion, omission, and
    ultimate cover-up of the real truth about 9/11?

     

    Ø  As they explored ways to invade Afghanistan, Iraq and
    5 other oil-rich Muslim nations, according to “Project for a New American
    Century” (PNAC), that prominent members of the Bush-Cheney Regime had written
    prior to 9/11, a “New Pearl Harbor” incident in the US would be the only way to
    convince the US Congress to increase US military spending to preserve American
    geopolitical leadership in the 21st Century.  As the genius, alleged 9/11 Mastermind,
    the World Community needs to know:
    Why, why, why would you, a devout Muslim, elect to fulfill the goal of
    the Bush-Cheney Regime by providing it with a spectacular, dramatic “New Pearl
    Harbor” that would provoke Christian and Jewish Americans to attack Muslim nations
    to establish US military bases on your oil-rich lands? 

     

     

    Ø  In the eight years since 9/11, world-wide independent
    researchers, scholars, architects, engineers, physicists, pilots, military
    officers, and filmmakers have assembled an unprecedented quantity of
    well-documented, written and video evidence, including The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, “9/11 Mysteries”, “Loose Change”, and “9/11 Press
    for Truth”, to name only a few examples, leaving no doubt that 9/11 was a
    false-flag operation, designed to give the Bush-Cheney Regime a pretext to
    attack oil-rich Muslim nations, discrediting the Bush-Cheney Conspiracy Theory,
    that “19 Muslim terrorist hijackers conspired and executed 9/11”, and
    demonstrating beyond question the fraudulent nature of the official account of
    9/11.  As the alleged 9/11
    Mastermind, which American “domestic” terrorists were complicit with you in the
    treason, the planning, the execution, and the cover-up of 9/11? 

     

     

    Ø  On a local and more personal level, in order to
    ascertain your degree of guilt for your “alleged” crimes for the murder of
    nearly 3,000 people on 9/11, it would be of utmost importance for Americans to
    know:  As the alleged 9/11
    Mastermind, did Condoleezza Rice, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Karl Rove,
    Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Philip Zelikow, Samuel Alito, Rush Limbaugh,
    Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, or any other member of the Bush-Cheney Regime or the
    Zelikow/Cheney 9/11 “Distortion and Omission ” Commission, or any member of the
    US Congress, that hastily, eagerly signed the massive, unread “Patriot Act”
    (which was obviously written prior to 9/11), or any member of Fox News or any
    other US news media organization commit or perform a lap dance or any other
    sexual favor for you, publically or privately, before, on, or after 9/11, and
    if so, with your permission, American Christians and Jews need to know if it
    gave you pleasure, because, if so, then they would most certainly demand that
    the US Congress and the Obama administration begin an immediate, real,
    thorough, independent investigation into the “Muslim terrorist attacks” and the
    real Truth about 9/11?

     

     

  • Libertytrail

    Robin, thanks for the 1-sided patronizing show.  I generally like your show and appreciate the many views that are expressed here. 

    I have to say that I was serious opponant of the war in Iraq and was not convinced by the war mongering Bush regime that it was justified.  It was then that I asked some “Truthers” about what they felt was so compelling.  They said start with WTC7.  I did and it was shocking.

    It’s ironic that  America loves the CSI drama so much.  911 is the whole package when it comes to an unsolved crime.  Besides building 7(an event that clearly defies the govt. story), you have MOLTEN METAL that was seen and filmed pouring from the towers and most importantly, flowing for weeks in the rubble pile – yes Robin, weeks – look it up!!   Please understand that you cannot, under any circumstance, produce molten metal(it was iron/steel flowing red/orange – not aluminum) with jet fuel or office fires or from some combination of the 2 in a collapsing bldg. – IMPOSSIBLE.  Mr Kay never adddresses this fact.  That is why concerned citizens(engineers and physicists) did the CSI assignment of looking in the dust(it’s called evidence) at ground zero. 

    What they found did explain why molten metal was produced that day – they found residue
    of a high-tech incendiary explosive material – they’re scientific findings have not been challenged
    at all in the 2 years that their results have been published. 

    911 Commssion + mainstream media = anti-science propaganda

    Your both right when you cheerfully explain why us regular folks have reason to suspect “false-flag” terrorism from our own govt.  Yes, Operations Northwoods(targeting Cuba) was eerily similar to the 911 attacks – from way back in 1962.  Thankfully, Kennedy was not insane and fired the generals who suggested it.  Kennedy did not trust the CIA and did not want a land war in Asia.  I believe he paid with his life for those views.   If you study US history enough you will see the trigger events down thru the decades.  Shortly after Kennedy was murdered(fired) there was the Gulf of Tonkin incident that triggered the real ground war in Viet Nam…..look it up!!!  It did not happen – the US
    was the instigator not North VN! 

    We are doomed if we cannot see how our own country is used as a war-making  juggernaut.

    peace , W

  • ivan

    It’s dangerous and irresponsible to take any extreme. Kay is taking an extreme view. He, like many other’s, use “conspiracy” and “conspiracy theory” as labels to belittle real questions that should be taken seriously and answered. Conspiracies are very real and happen all the time.  A conspiracy is an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act. Politicians, corporations, and military have, throughout history conspired to do horrible things.
    I’m from South America and I know that there have been plenty of conspiracies that have left people impoverished and dead because of U.S. and European corporate interests. People don’t become filthy rich by being honest and hard-working. There is proof of horrible conspiracies in Latin America, it’s not hard to believe that this same greedy oligarchy would conspire to hurt their own people.  Read The Open Veins of Latin America to see what the rich and their political tools are capable of. Remember what happened to the Black Panthers. The government’s own declassified documents show how the FBI murdered, framed members,  and flooded poor black neighborhoods with drugs. 

  • Duke

    I see what you did there in your radio piece… I especially liked how you indicted “Tea Party” members and young libertarians, and linked them to insane people, and habitual drug users. You can’t have a discussion with these people about central economic planning or Barak Obama’s great plans, better to slander them. That was a REMARKABLE piece of journalism. 

  • kiven

    “Truthers” and “conspiracy theorists” are label from propagandist.  the list of American
    atrocities both against Americans civilian and civilian in other countries  are real but hard to accept from those who want to buy into the corporate leader/governments lies. but when look at from a far, there is a clear pattern. most American don’t understand this due to the lack of coverage.
    ask any American about (1) the unwilling American civilian experiment done by the government of united states. In a Massachusetts
    school, seventy-three disabled children were spoon fed radioactive
    isotopes along with their morning oatmeal….In an upstate New York
    hospital, an eighteen-year-old woman, believing she was being treated
    for a pituitary disorder, was injected with plutonium by Manhattan
    Project doctors….At a Tennessee prenatal clinic, 829 pregnant women
    were served “vitamin cocktails”—in truth, drinks containing radioactive
    iron—as part of their prenatal treatment….In 1945, the seismic
    power of atomic energy was already well known to researchers, but the
    effects of radiation on human beings were not. again ask any American about (2) The US Army confirmed they had used over 500 tons of uranium munitions just in the first two months in Iraq – that’s the shock and awe – the US Army thoroughly confirmed in that the GBU 28 – which is a precision guided bomb if you will – 5,000 pounds of explosives contains a uranium warhead – again these are the bunker busters,” said Rokke. the radiation is real and can be deadly for the Iraqis and Yugoslavians civilian decades to come. again ask any American about (3) the Albert Eisenstein institution. In September 2003, it was also the Albert Einstein Institution who
    advised the opposition to question the electoral results and go on
    demonstrations to force Eduard Shevardnadze’s resignation during the «revolution» of the roses in Georgia. When the CIA-organized-coup against Venezuela failed in April 2002,
    the State Department counted again on the Albert Einstein Institution
    which advised the owners of enterprises during the organization of the
    revocatory referendum against President Hugo Chávez. Gene Sharp and his
    team led the leaders of Súmate during the demonstrations of August 2004.
    As done before, the only thing they had to do was questioning the
    electoral results and demanding the resignation of the president. They
    managed to get the bourgeoisie out in the street but Chavez’s popular
    government was to strong. All in all, international observers had no
    other choice but to recognize Hugo Chávez’s victory. and there are hundred of story like this everyday if you read English news version from country like Japan and Philippine. facts are facts most American are clueless bout these facts. most ignore it and told from a whisper by media hacks like mr Kay.

  • ivan

    I’ve also seen how main stream media is involved in conspiracies. In Venezuela I saw certain events first hand with my own eyes. Later I watched English news, like CNN,  and I saw how they flat out lied and fabricated fake news covering the same events. There is proof of main stream media getting involved in conspiracies . They get paid off and are owned, just like politicians. During the Nicaraguan conflict in the 30′s the AP correspondents were two North Americans who controlled the country’s custom houses. Talk about conflict of interest. 

    • Zabada

      To all men here..hear to me…Jews do 9 11,with Bush and top American politician and armies  leader permission.All over the world know these all.They create New World order by killing their own people.Nothing to do with Al qaeda or any terrrorist organization.Believe me.There are many bad American politician at the time of 9 11.They are not god fear man.evil men.

      • Guest

        Some one need to shoot them on the road.

  • Freedom Rider

    What I liked most, and nearly had an accident from laughing, was the comment “Sometimes the government lies to the people”.  Obviously the speaker has recently moved to the United States because he seems to have missed the past 4 years.  Truth:  “The U.S. Government has been lying to the people for decades continuously”.  Lies are the very foundation of politics and the number one tool in any politicians toolbox.  Maybe he has never heard the words “Plausible Deniability”.

    I have watch the media clips of the attack on the World Trade Center.  The steel that those buildings were constructed from could have sustained more than one hit by an airplane.  2.  The buildings fell straight down.  3.  In the media clips that were taken from the opposing side of the buildings from which they were struck clearly showed shape charges going off at different levels of the buildings prior to the collapse.  The only way anyone would have missed this is by covering their eyes.

    I am no conspiracy theorist however, I am not so blind that I do not see the obvious.  Even the laws of physics dictate that the most that would have happen to those buildings was serious damage to the super structure at the top and bending the rest of the frame.

    Next time put someone on the air who isn’t a political diploma waving tail kisser.  That guy was so obvious it was commical.

  • We Are NOT Stupid

    God Damn It.  The Media is not going to get it.

    Not sure … if they are defending Israel, or their stupidity or friging lies.

    This Station is proving to us, one more time …. They are Part of the Cover-Up

  • VIRGINIA

    What the hell are they hiding?  Is any one of these people have something to hide?
    We have to get rid of these Gatekeepers.  Outright lies are presented as facts.
    Me and my husband know at least 10000 people from the 9/11 Truth Movement.  They are the most informed, most educated, most thoughtful people.  This program officially and journalistically is calling them/us “Crazy”, without looking at the damn evidence.  Gad Damn It!!!!!
    THIS RADIO STATION AND THE MANAGEMENT AND PRODUCERS HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS BY COVERING IT UP AND THEY ARE STILL DEFENDING LIES AND GARBAGE.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Host Robin Young is a whirlwind of energy, with years of experience anchoring programs but also gathering news and producing.
    Senior Producer Kathleen McKenna has spent time at PBS, Monitor Radio and public radio. When she’s not working, she’s raising her son, raising her vegetables, and, after living in China, dreaming of future travels.
    Alex Ashlock is producer and director of the show. He has more than two decades experience in public radio, starting at WILL at the University of Illinois. He’s spent 11 years at WBUR, first as the senior producer of Morning Edition before joining Here & Now. Alex is sort of Here & Now’s history buff. But he also enjoys producing longer interviews with authors on current events or fiction and he contributes the occasional field-piece to the show. Alex is also WBUR’s man at the Boston Marathon. He’s covered it every year since 1998, except for the one year he actually tried to run the race and didn’t finish.
    Chris Ballman is a dad and a longtime radioman, spending time at Monitor Radio and recently at Public Radio’s “Living on Earth.”
    When producer Hitesh Hathi is not with us, he’s at Harvard going for his Ph.D. in Sanskrit. Come to think of it, his Urdu is not bad.
    Whenever producer Lynn Menegon is not producing news for Here & Now, she’s dancing.
    When he’s not producing, Kevin Sullivan is going for an MBA.
    Producer Emiko Tamagawa studied psychology and drama at Yale and Brandeis, and is our institutional memory.
    Jill Ryan was a star intern, now she’s fully on board.

  • Virginia

    Robin Young – it is time for you to resign! 

  • Virginia

    You don’t deserve to have the microphone.  Nor the producers.

    Do the brave act and resign collectively.  Boston University is producing lots of true journalists every year, with brilliant ideals and sworn to give us facts and nothing but facts – NOT THE GOD DAMN LIZARD CRAP AGAIN.

    Get Out of the Media – Get Lost!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Virginia

    Robin Young: You are NOT a journalist.  A Gatekeeper of Lies.  A servant of a Cover-up.

    Resign Now.  Resign Yesterday.  You don’t deserve your paycheck.

    What is it that you are defending by calling us “Crazy”, lunatic and a Lizard crap.

  • Virginia

    Robin,

    Be honest here.  Who the hell you are protecting?  Another country?  Tell us.  Be honest

  • Mike

    Shame on you for presenting such a one-sided program on the 911 truth movement.  Let me remind you that the official story is also a conspiracy theory.  That’s one thing that everyone seems to agree on, there was a conspiracy working on Sept 11th.  The official conspiracy theory based primarily on Al Qaeda is interesting, but the official story and record are a mess – full of omissions and errors.  Bring this guy back and put him across the table from David Ray Griffin.  If you can find a lizard man, bring that on as well.  Shame on you for this program. 

  • Freedom Rider

    Please excuse my grammar.  My computer is older than the commentator’s career and far older than the guest speaker’s college degree.  The keys stick occasionally.

  • Wbsurfer

    wow, NPR actually mentioned Operation North Woods where the military had plans to blow up a US plane and blame it on Cuba to start a war and then continued on saying though that may be true, to think the govt could have blown up the WTC is crazy. Most listeners probably never heard about operation North Woods ..

      How the heck would the guest know that nanothermites could not take down the towers ? Most NASA scientists and experts didn’t think a loose styrofoam panel could cause the space shuttle to be blown up, but tests showed that was wrong. If there was not your typical explosion, perhaps nanothermites could have been used to bring the towers down in a less obvious way. Just because the demolition industry doesn’t typically do it that way doesn’t mean it ‘s impossible or that there might be a reason to do it in a non typical way ..

     Who ever said that passengers where not killed ? It seems it is a simple thing to take control of a plane using remote control ..

  • Wbsurfer

    another point is that the demolision people have no access to nanothermites. It should also be noted that nanothermites are not typical thermites. Neils Harriet said that these where very high tech and even he has no idea how they where manufactured and they where probably created by a sophisticated and secretive method known only to some military contractors etc ..

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeffery.humphrey Jeffery Humphrey

      And the simple fact that Jonathan Kay says Thermite is not a demolitions material shows how far he went in his research. As a veteran the first thing they teach you in Infantry Basic is how to use Thermite explosives to destroy Armored Vehicles is they ever come under the threat of capture. Jonathan Kay needs to research a little harder before pointing fingers, because some in the public know B.S. speculation and lying when they hear it.

  • swamiwilly

    National Geographic did an excellent DVD; 9/11 Conspiracy?  that debunks the Truthers’ claims, including one segment where demolition experts refute the planted explosives claim.  Also, Chris Mooney has an excellent article “We Can’t Handle the Truth; The science of why people don’t believe scienc.” (Mother Jones online).  He explains the psychology of the confirmation bias and other impediments to objectively examining evidence on a controversial issue.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alessandra-Colfi/793265451 Alessandra Colfi

      “How To Think About Weird Things” by Schick and Vaugh as well as Shermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things” are two sober treatments of the subject.

      Reading some of the comments gives merit to the claim of “obsessively fixated.”  My guess is some people find meaning in life and an emotional charge from devoting themselves to conspiracy theories.  Notice how quickly and how vehemently the comment boxes filled up with pro-conspiracy invective.

      Kay is right that it makes civil discourse more difficult.

  • Virginia

    Have question for the audience and members of the Media

    After misunderestimating the staying power of 9/11 Truth Activists and dirt that is coming out about the “operatives”…
    If the isreali lobby smells the fact that all investigative fingers are p;ointing at Israel, will they hire some non-Israeli Lying ConnArtists to discredit the Truth Movement so that the Media will not bother with the tough and factual questions?

    Yes, or No?

  • Virginia

    If there were a new investigation of the Collapses of the Three Towers

    Can anybody tell me …. how much it will cost to Jonathan Key, personally or indirectly?

  • Virginia

    Robin:

    Did you have a show opposing the investigation of BP Rig Explosion in the Gulf.

    How about the Black Birds dying.  Why did we investigate that?  Shame on us.  You should have done a show on NOT investigating these, too.

  • Alternate Thinking

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=972ETepp4GI

    WTC  Yesssss, it was a structural failure.
    There is no way a Controlled Demolition will bring such a large building like this.
    The collapse looks like any other steel building collapse that we see every other day in our backyard.
    These Conspiracy Theorists smoke week and watch porn and they are also woman abusers.  I bet they all cheat on their taxes and they pick their noses.
    Great Program Robin; what an interview.
    Somebody in WBUR has to Go for doing this crap.

  • Virginia
  • Lilya Lopekha

    Robin,

    Fire yourself.    Your are not a journalist.  Move in with Jonathan Kay.  You two can lie each other all day, all night.
    Get out of the Media.  You don’t deserve to be the educator and reporter and interview for this Nation.

  • Ben

    “In politics nothing happens by accident, if it happens you can bet it was planned that way.”
                       …Franklin D. Roosevelt…

  • Ed

    Jonathan Kay reminds me of what a journalist really is. A DOPE.
    Specifically D.O.P.E.        Docile, Obedient, Partial and Effete.

    A true modern day journalist who does what he is told.

    Johh Swinton stated the following about the independent press years ago:

    There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.
    There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.
    The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?
    We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.

  • Db

    I hadn’t much looked into all of this 9-11 stuff until Kay started talking about ridiculous it all was.  And frankly, the more I look into things, the more questions seem to come up.

    What really bothers me is that Kay seems to be saying that the issue shouldn’t be explored or questioned or reviewed at all, and that if you want to do that, you are somehow a crank or psychologically damaged.

    Any thoughtful person realizes histories, and versions of histories, shift and change and emphasize different things over time to promote what the cause-du-jour is.  He should really read Margaret MacMillan’s Uses and Abuses of History.

    I just can’t believe that asking questions, albeit uncomfortable ones, means you are a nut-bar.

    And frankly, that kind of limiting of questions and discussions is not something you would expect from an alleged journalist.

    Methinks he doth protest too much!

    • William Leslie

      Curious to know; do you apply the same skepticism to Global Warming and Evolution?

      • Db

        No.  I’m not sure Global Warming is the best to describe the amount of climate change we are seeing, but if the label works for you – so be it.  I’m pretty sure all of the biological medicine treatments and research are kind of based on evolution.  So what are you curious about?  That if you disagree with someone on one point or issue – they must be apart of some entirely looney group?  I think that’s called marginalizing – and actually I am sure it’s paranoid.

        • swamiwilly

          I’m interested in knowing if a person’s standards for deciding whether a claim is true or not are the same across a wide variety of controversial issues. Humans are prone to emotive thinking; we lower the standards for claims we like, raise them for claims we don’t.  I’m also interested in knowing how far a person’s skepticism applies; are they as skeptical of their skepticism as they are of the “official story.”

          One consistency I find among both conspiracy theorists and AGW deniers is neither has composed a credible and coherent alternative theory that could be analyed with the same critical thinking they apply to the official story.

          • Wmleslie77

            I should add that this also applies to Creationists/IDers.

          • Db

            Big on labels – aren’t you?

          • Db

            Well, I would agree all of us can only control our emotive self so much – and that effects all our decision making abilities, yours, mine, his, her’s, them, everybody… everybody…

            What muddles me up a bit, is that if you are saying my standard for deciding not accept the “official 9-11 story” is because I “like” to think that the government of the United States let it happen, or had some hand it, than you don’t know.  Why on earth would I “like” to believe that of the government?  Saying it breaks my heart wouldn’t do it justice.  I’m not saying either way, although I would allow that one of my greatest resistances to accepting “alternate explanations,” even when they make a lot more sense, is because I just can’t believe that the government would lie to people like that, be so warped and evil itself.  I mean, when has the government ever had anything but the best will of the people at heart?

            What also troubles me, is that in discussions with people who question things, that’s all they are doing is questioning – and yet they get so quickly marginalized by the like of Kay.  Many people are still struggling with the answers from both “sides.”  Entertaining alternate views, is just that, considering them, putting them to the test, trying to understand and weigh credible evidence and reasoned arguments.

            I accept that people are going to disagree with me about things – why can’t Kay?

            Everytime I read Kay saying “that’s just not true…” I can find sources to indicate that those points in question are true or at the least there is an argument in qualified redress to them – and Kay offers nothing legitimate or iron clad to back-up his “that’s not true” line of defense.  It’s hard to believe he’s a lawyer.  I’m glad I don’t have him on retainer.  But I am sure he has many other fine qualities.  I hope he shares them with us one.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012
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Friday, May 18, 2012
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